Vintage Gretsch Guitars

Unusual Part Request

1

Pardon the fact that what I'm looking for isn't a Gretsch part originally.. But I'm trying to find a PRS Sweet Switch device. It's a 1513-135Y and is a time delay device that mimics a 100' of guitar cable. I want to use it in my "Mud" switch on one of my C.C.'s. It's not a cap but a delay device. I think it would be great on a Mud switch. If anyone has one or can get one, I would greatly appreciate it. It's also a cross ref. for an PCA #EPA756 0608 C1H

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

2

Don - Not sure where to get one but was curious and looked up the PRS Sweet Switch - you likely found this link but it's an interesting description for anyone else here that may be wondering what this is. It's a 135 billionths of a second delay. Hope you can find one.

How a "Sweet Switch" really works

3

Don, got a photo of the part? I'll check my parts bins.

4

I'll see if I can find one. It's about 1/2" and is a little black rectangle thing with the numbers stamped on one side..

6

Hey Don, I looked and don't have any. What would these be installed in, in case I see something that needs recycled?

Good luck!

8

It is a 135 nano-second delay. This is staggeringly less than a 135th of a second.

135 nanoseconds is 135/1,000,000,000 of a second.

What is the player hoping to experience when using this component?

If you consider the speed of sound in air, then a 135 nanosecond delay in the sound from your amp speaker to your ears would involve tilting your head an almost imperceptible distance from the amp.

My quick calc says a .00176 inch difference in distance to your amp would give a 135 nanosecond delay. Even if I am off by a few orders of magnitude, this is an absurdly small thing.

Move 1/10th the diameter of your High E string away from your amp and tell me all about the delay you hear.

I understand that an electronic delay is not the same as a time delay in the sound from a speaker bouncing around a room.

But a 135 nanosecond delay requires considerable suggestibility to believe it is perceptible.

9

Okay, here's something I probably should have known but just realized now. I have a 1985 PRS, early production (#45), bought it new so I've had it forever. I always just called it a bright switch. But looking it up, it's the "sweet switch" using (I believe) the 1513-135Y component.

Don - did you try asking on the PRS forum where to possibly find one?

10

nielDa; Hi! No, haven't tried that was hoping just to find one w/o having to signup there. I may try to ask Jack Higgenbottom, PRS President as Jack and I have stayed friends over the years. I've been looking through my collection of business card to find his that has his private email address on it.. Thanks!

11

Okay, so in practical terms, what does it really do? Chrisp's post has me sold on the the notion that the literal delay is likely meaningless. So, what is the side effect that's actually audible? Some kind of filtering? Capacitance? Resistance? I had a PRS as my workhorse from 1991 to 2005, and my recollection of the sweet switch was that it did next to nothing and after flipping it a couple of times I never touched it again.

12

Hi Afire,

Not trying to sell anyone on anything, just noting that the time delay is the same delay you would experience by moving 1/10 of the diameter of your high E string farther from your amp.

I think you are on the right track (if trying to find ANY possible actual effect), in that there may be genuine changes in the RLC circuit incidental to the time delay nonsense.

Much like capacitor technology perceived differences being overwhelmed by the actual differences in (gasp) the actual capacitance from one cap to another.

This is all in what is best called my opinion.

Quackery has its place, and probably does some good at times.

13

chrisp, how splendid to see you again here!

14

Hi Tim/Prot,

Likewise great to see your name.

I am just here now and then. Hope all is well with you and yours.

15

Flipping the switch produces a definitely noticeable tone difference (of course, why else would PRS include it.) As mentioned, I just thought of it as a bright switch, and assumed there was a capacitor in the circuit - I never poked around inside this guitar to look. With the maple top the guitar is already on the bright side, so I tend to keep the switch in the "non-bright" position. However, I've always had bright strings on it, I may go with pure nickel for the next string change.

16

So what are these delay switches built into/designed for, PCs or ?

17

Hi Paul,

In my experience, such delays are used to either adjust unwanted phase shifts in analog signals, or to manage the arrival time of competing signals at a critical point in a circuit.

I first saw such delays used in analog radar systems in the early 1980's (the so called PATRIOT missile system to be specific). I am slightly old it seems.

More knowledgeable and trained people may offer a better explanation.

The use of such a delay in a guitar strikes me as absolutely absurd. But so do many things that are widely embraced by very satisfied people. (Bud-Light comes to mind as an example.)

Anyway, whatever floats one's boat - so long as the actual facts are allowed to be part of the discussion.

18

It was first used by Carlos Santana to mimic the sound he had before he went wireless. Seems as thought when he used a cable he liked his tone and when he switched to using a wireless unit it was too clean/too bright vs. the 100 ft. guitar cable he had used. So the device was incorporated to give the sound of the cable. Paul liked it so much he decided to use it as an option on his guitars. Switched in is the sound of a 100' ft cable, out is straight from the pickups to your amp. I though it might be a nice option on one of my Gretsches on the Tone switch.. I like a bit darker tone on somethings I play. Switching caps doesn't give me the same thing. I pretty much settled on a .0068uf for one position and a .022 for the other. The stock values on the original tone switches are .047 & .1 The part is made by PCA & is: EPA 756 0608 C1H

Thanks!


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