Vintage Gretsch Guitars

60’s Viking lefty conversion

26

Don’t use a hairdryer and make sure you wear a HEPA respirator, that dust is toxic.

27

Ok thank you. I tried a bit with hairdryer and i have the feeling it makes more chips in the finish. I only wear a simple mask, i will buy a big one, thanks a lot for your warning !

28

I bought a HEPA mask and done a little bit of binding removal today, thanks Curt it’s better without heating. But i have a question about the laminate bindings, I thought i could laminate and then glue the bindings, but they seem to be laminated crooked, and the groove on the wood is not perfectly square either. So did the factory laminate the binding one by one on the guitar at the time ? I think i will do this way, i saw pictures of a rebinding with one binding put with needles on the groove until the glue is dry ?

29

Also the hairdryer thing isn't great because the dust is potentially explosive.

No other way to say it but 4 ply celluloid binding is a bitch. I do about two feet at a time starting with black the alternating and gluing as you go. Every once in a while I'll laminate a white and a black with acetone the apply it. You can laminate a thin and thick piece without it creeping. As you know it's impossible to do 4 plus at once with celluloid because of curves.

30

Thanks for your answer Curt. I almost finished to remove the old binding on the back of the body, so I have another question What is the best type of glue for a rebinding job (with ABS, celluloid is harder to find due to fire hazard )? I planned to use a cement type (uhu Hart) but I made some test on the 3 ply binding BWB i plan to use on the inside, it seems not to melt neither with the glue nor with acetone, so I guess it’s not ABS as it was advertised... So I need to order new ABS binding or to order new glue... I saw some people glue bindings with Cyanoacrylate ? I’m a little scared to use it as it will go into the wood and makes touch up of the chips in the finish more difficult if done after the rebinding ? Also the working time is certainly quicker... On the other hand the cement type will certainly melt the finish, I will make a try under the back pad to see how it reacts... I am still waiting for the outer binding which is sold as ABS, but all advices are welcome :)

31

The label inside the guitar is numbered 70393 which is 1964ish or so. But it does have the hole for the Floating Sound Unit which is quite odd for being this early. This must be one of the very very first guitars using the FSU. A FSU can cost anywhere from $100 to $300 when available, but for my money they are worth it because the dang thing works. And with the two different Supertrons's, the sound of a Viking is pretty awesome. And Toxophilite is absolutely correct -- Cadillac Green is the way to go. I have a Viking in Cadillac Green and it is a distinctive color. If you don't care about being "vintage" there is a wide pallet of lacquer-based paints to choose from. Go to any auto parts store and look at spray cans of lacquer-based touch up paints to get an idea

– ewkewk

Automotive Hunter Green Metallic is VERY close to Gretsch cadillac green It's a 1971-72 Buick Colour

I would say refinish as the wood is already very stained from the binding rot(you can see it in the side pictures, it will be in the top too.

A 1/4 sharp chisel is good for cleaning out the binding rout.

And yes the Floating sound unit with the supertrons makes for a unique and cool sounding guitar. Also it looks fabulous strange and wonderful.

You can hear the one I had here. This also makes use of the mute for most of the song , except for the solos , the tremelo chords in the pre-chorus, and a double non muted guitar in the chorus and the intro I believe. Listening back i almost regret selling it. (Too many guitars!)

https://thecolorifics.bandc...

32

Sorry I’ve never used ABS so I don’t know the best glue to use.

33

For ABS use Duco Cement (Model airplane glue) or Acetone. acetone is good for laminateing layers too. I do all my layers on the guitar at the same time. Learned this from Bob Benedetto’s course.

34

You can also chop up a few small bits of binding and mix it with a little acetone in a jar, wait a short bit, stir and it will dissolve into goo and you can use that as glue.

35

Thanks for your answers ! I would really like to save the finish, i like the sunburst on this guitar. The glue i bought is also an airplane cellulose based glue, I guess i’m good for buying another’s layers of binding I have the benedetto book, I will try the technique of multiple layers at once If you have another techniques of type of glue or binding to help me save the finish ? Here in France Celluloid binding is hard to find but if it’s better....

36

There’s no way you can do 4 ply binding pre-laminated all at once. It’s like a differential on a car, the inside moving at a different rate than the outside. The only possible way that might work is if it’s saturated in acetone and everything is still wet which would be next to impossible on a guitar that you’re trying to save the finish. I currently have 12 guitars in different stages of binding replacement and trust me I’ve tried every shortcut.

38

Thanks for your advices, i will do the bindings one at a time, i’m not in a hurry and I really want to save the finish :) Is any glue better for that or is it personal preference ? And I have already bought a big 3M HEPA mask, i’m using it since you told me Thanks !

39

Hi Curt,

I’m not sure if this will work for you but:

Bob’s method has you apply the glue between layers as you go. You start with gluing and taping all 3 or 4 layers in place at one end. Maybe just an inch or so. Then you apply about 6” glue around the first layer, hold it in place and do the next layer and then the next. Each time, holding the previous layer in place. As you apply the glue, and slide the binding in place, you are pushing the glue forward toward the unglued section. Then tape the 6” section as normal.

I have done quite a few 3 layer @ 0.060” (.180” total) bindings and a few 5 layer @0.030” (.150”) like this on older repairs. This is with ABS.

I can’t rememer how I did the multilayered celluloid binding on the 1957 Gretsch 6121. I will have to look for pictures to see if I did that the same way. Most other celluloid bindings I have done have been single layer and I install as normal.

Would love to hear if this method would work for you. It’s a huge time saver if it does. You don’t have to let dry between players.

41

Hi Curt,

I’m not sure if this will work for you but:

Bob’s method has you apply the glue between layers as you go. You start with gluing and taping all 3 or 4 layers in place at one end. Maybe just an inch or so. Then you apply about 6” glue around the first layer, hold it in place and do the next layer and then the next. Each time, holding the previous layer in place. As you apply the glue, and slide the binding in place, you are pushing the glue forward toward the unglued section. Then tape the 6” section as normal.

I have done quite a few 3 layer @ 0.060” (.180” total) bindings and a few 5 layer @0.030” (.150”) like this on older repairs. This is with ABS.

I can’t rememer how I did the multilayered celluloid binding on the 1957 Gretsch 6121. I will have to look for pictures to see if I did that the same way. Most other celluloid bindings I have done have been single layer and I install as normal.

Would love to hear if this method would work for you. It’s a huge time saver if it does. You don’t have to let dry between players.

– Joe Desperado (aka: Jack Daniels)

Joe, yep that's how I do it, I think I misread or misinterpreted that you were laminating 4 layers then attaching them to the body. I've been able to do 2 layers pre-laminated which works.

42

Joe, yep that's how I do it, I think I misread or misinterpreted that you were laminating 4 layers then attaching them to the body. I've been able to do 2 layers pre-laminated which works.

– Curt Wilson

Oh ya, that would not work.

43

I received my Stew mac order and the 2.29mm binding fits just fine ! I still have the problem of the 3 laminate binding that doesn’t glue well, i will try different glue but it doesn’t melt with acetone (the stew mac outer binding does).

44

Another option is doing a 2 layers binding, inner 1.5 mm black and outer 2.25 mm white... it will do like the Annie HT binding, less fancy but maybe easier for a first binding job...

45

The original 4 layers looks best. It's not that hard, if you're an octopus with infinite patience!

46

I think the same, the 4 layers look great... I think my 3 laminated layers are PVC, I managed to have better adhesion on a sample by sanding it, but much weaker than the outer ABS, which adhesion with CA is very strong. I will try PVC glue tomorrow, but i’m afraid it will melt the finish....

48

Thanks, I will do a research because i don't find it in France. I found UHU Hart as a cement glue, but I don't know if it's the same...


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