The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Vintage Gretsch Guitars: 1972 Country Gentleman...is it worth it?

1972 Country Gentleman...is it worth it?

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- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 1, 2009 7:48 p.m. fostewi:

Hi, I have read a lot on the forum but still feel I need to get some advice for the specific guitar I am interested in. So I was at the local music store yesterday to pick up a pickguard for the 5122 I just bought Saturday (I did not like the plastic guard) and stumbled on a used 72 Country Gentleman. I had picked up the 5122 saturday intending to upgrade the pickups, etc but after trying the CG I think I may have to get a pro model and just sell the 5122. I am going to get it checked out by a pro before deciding if I buy it but assuming there are no serious issues what would you say it would be worth? I know it's a baldwin model and have read here about the binding issues but from what I can tell the binding is flawless except for the piece missing behind the neck joint (could this be a sign of more trouble to come). The gold is very worn on the hardware which does not bother me and the back of the neck is also very worn which seems to make it a little sticky to move around..is there anything that could be done about that? Otherwise I can not find any serious blemishes other than the cracked pick guard. One more possibly silly question... the original case smells very moldy...could this in any way be a sign of an issue with the guitar as well or is it just the old material from the case?

I am also torn because although I thought I wanted a CG, now that I have finally had a chance to try one it is bigger and heavier than I expected (though I love the sound, but wish the tone switch took less highs off in the second setting). Also, though a cheaper model I am somewhat partial (I think) to the Tennessee rose...would I be better off paying more for a new TR instead?

Please take a look at the pictures and I would greatly appreciate any feedback.
- Rated: 22 ↑
Jul 1, 2009 10:52 p.m. gresco:

I own both a T. Rose and a Country Gent. Hard to pick one over the other, both distinct in their own way, both excellent. But I think in looking at the pictures, I'd hold out for the T. Rose. Something doesn't look right with that Gent. For one thing the pickup surrounds are definitely wrong. It almost looks like someone had put Gibson Humbuckers in, and then converted back, or something like that. Plus the thumbnail fret markers don't look right...unless the string is obstructing the view of them. Other than that I think it looks legit, but it looks like it's had a rough life. I suppose if you don't invest too deep into it you might not get hurt. If it was me, I'd pass, but hey, it may be a great player.
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 12:41 a.m. fostewi:

Thanks for the comments. I should have mentioned that the pick-up covers were changed (to brass?) but it comes with the originals (each has one of the screw holes cracked though but you could position them such that the pickguard would cover it up). Also, there is another pickguard which also is cracked at the screw but has a much smaller crack.

What about the inlays don't look right? I did not find them suspicious at all...I will try and find some pictures to compare. Overall I thought the quality seemd good other than the binding behind the neck joint and neck wear (the rest of the binding looks fine to me which I have read is an issue with 60s/70s models). I am going to get a pro tech to check it out for me to make sure there are not any issues as well (e.g. neck, frets) but I am looking here for opinions from the gretsch experts!

What would you say this guitar is worth...they are asking $2000 CDN for it.

How would you compare the playability/sound between the TR and Gent? I think I would likely be interested in the TR with the fake f-holes and filtertrons (G6119-1962FT) but it would be a new or recent japanese one...I don't expect to find another vintage gretsch locally in this price range. Thanks for your help.
- Rated: 7 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 6:32 a.m. drmilktruck:

Per the latest version of the Blue Book of Electric Guitars, a VG to VG Plus 70s Gent should be worth $US 1250-1500. If it's excellent condition, you might pay $US 1850.
- Rated: 14 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 7:53 a.m. Paddywagon:

That seems a bit low to me, drmilktruck.
- Rated: 32 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 9:05 a.m. afire:

The pickup surrounds are genuine Gretsch, but from later in the 70's.
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 9:45 a.m. fostewi:

I did not know about the pickup surounds...the guitar is definitely a 72 based on the serial number (Jan 72) but I guess someone changed them later in the 70s.
- Rated: 22 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 9:59 a.m. gresco:

After closer examination of the pic with it in the case, I agree that the inlays look okay. My mistake. And I agree...the binding looks okay. I think I read that if the binding is okay at this point in its life that it will remain okay. I had a '67 Rally that I sold to a friend, and the binding is still perfect. Another thing to look out for is possibly needing a neck reset. My Rally DID need that. Your tech should be able to determine that. The Rally's action became very high over time, due to the neck/body joint failing,and because of the low break angle over the bridge, could not be lowered enough. The fretboard extension seemed to ramp upwards by comparison. Plus a fretted note on the 3rd fret would be noticeably sharp. Weird quirk. Tuning was a constant compromise. My guess would be that neck resets would be more common on the thinner bodied Gretsches(?)

As far as playability goes, they are similar, and individual instruments vary. Both of mine play excellent and the most noticeable difference is body thickness...the Rose being thicker at 2 1/2" vs 1 7/8". But the Gents 17" diameter is also noticeable, vs 16". I believe the 62FT Rose you're referring to has a 2" body

Soundwise, again very similar. Both os mine have ebony fretboards, Filtertrons and bar bridges. Admittedly the Gent is mellower, and the closed F holes offer a somewhat different tone. But in my case the '02 electronics may responsible for that. (Actually mine is an '02 Country Classic, pre FMIC, made in Japan.) My Rose has more "bite" and a wider tone range than the Classic, but your vintage Gent might differ in that area. Also my Rose has a tone pot rather than a "mud" switch.

Overall they all sound wonderful, and I'm sure you'll be happy with whichever you choose. Plus it sounds like this Gent is calling out to you.

Just a side note. It doesn't matter much, cause you're going to change it, but the pickguard is incorreect for your Gent. The p/up cutouts are deffinitely too wide for that model. I'll try to post a pic of my Classic to give you a comparison.

Good luck!
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 10:34 a.m. fostewi:

Thanks gresco, excellent info! As for the pickguard...I noticed that too. The other one that it comes with that is less damaged (but still cracked) has the correct pickup spacing. I wonder still if it is original...when did Baldwin change the pickguard shape?
- Rated: 22 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 11:26 a.m. gresco:

Here's a mediocre pic of my '02 Classic for comparison.

Cheers
- Rated: 7 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 1:05 p.m. drmilktruck:

That's what the Blue Book says for 1970s CG. It seemed low to me as well but if anything the price guides are high compared to eBay. I didn't check the Vintage Guitar Guide, although their prices are for excellent condition guitars. This one is probably VG Plus. (significant neck wear, crack in pickguard) The shop might bite on the $1850 price, probably not the $1500.
- Rated: 33 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 1:13 p.m. tommy59:

All of the 'guitar blue books' tend to run on the high side.

I love all Gents, and also tend to love guitars with that much wear that obviously came from use (they don't get played for 10,000 hours if they suck). However, I would say $1500 is the most I would go on that guitar. That is the top of the price range, not the bottom.

Just one opinion.
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 2:45 p.m. fostewi:

Thanks...are we talking USD or CDN? This is $2000 CDN which is about $1720 USD which is still more than you are saying but closer. I have been watching for a while and never see these guitars for anywhere near that low but I guess I don't usually check eBay as I want to try it first. So you think it would be better to spend $2450 USD (based on Musicians Friend right now) on a new one rather than $1700 on this one?
- Rated: 14 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 3:35 p.m. Paddywagon:

$2000 Canadian ($1720 USD) is an OK price, but I bet you can talk them down a bit lower...
- Rated: 7 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 8:10 p.m. drmilktruck:

The Vintage Guitar price guide says "low excellent" 70s CG go for $US 2500 to "high excellent" $US 3000. The Blue Book suggests only mint condition should be in that price range, at US$ 2750.

The VG guide gets its numbers from prominent US Dealers and what they'd sell something for. Dealer prices tend to be higher. Dealers argue they deserve higher as the instrument is better checked over and usually backed by a warranty of some kind. OTOH books like the VG guide tend to favor dealers by having them set the standard for selling price, then using the book to justify the prices they charge.

I'm not sure where the Blue Book gets its prices from, but it's probably something similar. The advantage to those is the prices are broken down by condition.

eBay prices are generally lower although more unpredictable, plus you can't check it out personally. You can get an amazing deal or you can get ripped off. (I've done both.)

Right now on eBay a private seller has a 72 CG in apparent excellent condition for $2399 USD Buy It Now.
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 8:54 p.m. fostewi:

Thanks for the info everyone...I just found this on ebay and it baffles me....

1969 CG on eBay (needs new binding and frets!) for $3,066.17 CDN

It's only a few years older (I believe that would still be Baldwin, right?)...maybe because it's germany?

I found the 72 you are referring to and the guy says it needs new binding : 72 CG eBay for US $2,399.00

If the only issue with the binding on the one I found is the neck heel I could live with that as it's not visible and does not affect playability. The part of the binding that is missing is not connected to any other binding so I don't think it would continue to "spread" unless it's just a sign of a general binding problem (uneducated guess of course).
- Rated: 7 ↑
Jul 2, 2009 9:58 p.m. drmilktruck:

This German guitar is not worth anywhere near that. It likely won't sell at that price. (However I once sold a nearly new amp that worked fine for $50 less than the same model that by the seller's own admission didn't work! PT Barnum was right, at least on eBay.)

Comparatively your deal for $2000 Canadian looks better for a nice guitar in very good condition. I'd see if the dealer'll come down a few hundred and call it done.
- Rated: 14 ↑
Jul 3, 2009 8:12 a.m. Paddywagon:

I have the 2008 Vintage guitar price guide...I guess I was referring to those prices, when I said your quotes seemed on the low side, drmilktruck. Apparantly, a big difference between blue book and the vintage price guide. FWIW, the price guide always seems a bit on the high side, but that's what I'm used to referencing.
- Rated: 7 ↑
Jul 3, 2009 8:22 a.m. drmilktruck:

The big difference is that the VG price is for excellent condition guitars only,while the other gives prices for all conditions. You need to reduce the VG price accordingly.
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 3, 2009 7:54 p.m. fostewi:

Thanks again for all your input. I had it checked out and he thought it was in very good shape. The neck is straight but I noticed that the frets seem a little flat in the middle (he supects some fret work has been done and they took more off the middle). He figures with a good setup and a little fret work (to make the frets a little sharper) it would be good to go. He does think the frets are pretty shallow and will need to be replaced within a few years depending how much I use it but the binding is in excellent condition (except the small spot on the neck heel) and the electronics all seem good. I have not played another gretsch before but it does seem a little mellower than I expected...I know its hard to say but would you think that this is related to how old it is or possibly the CG in general or is that just the way big gretsches are? I am so close to keeping it but I want to try and find a store where I can try a new one and a Tenny too so I can compare before committing....hope I can find some somehere in/near Toronto to try. Thanks!
- Rated: 4 ↑
Jul 5, 2009 9:20 p.m. FatBoy:

fostewi:, If you'r into buying a new Country Gent. there are deals out there. I bought this new Gent. Last week as a in store demo, for $2ooo,ooCDN. Unless you'r set on a Vintage, I'd look around for a deal on a new one or check out EBay there are some nice guitars for sale there..
- Rated: 5 ↑
Jul 5, 2009 9:40 p.m. jackrd:

People can drive themselves crazy asking for the opinon of others on a guitar, especially a vintage one. If you like it, play it, look at the price and if it is in a fair price range, just buy it. I have missed out on so many deals in my life in more areas that guitars because I analyzed it to death. He is hesitates is lost. JMHO
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 5, 2009 11:46 p.m. fostewi:

FatBoy:

Where did you find that in Canada if you don't mind me asking...or did you just convert the currency for me? I have not found one of these in a local store yet but I expect retail is close to $3000 CDN.

jackrd:

So true! Worse...a used White Falcon has caught my eye...not vintage though but used for about $500 more. Honestly though, I just don't think I could pull off a falcon! I feel I need a gretsch hollowbody AND a Gent but that just can't happen for me.
- Rated: 4 ↑
Jul 6, 2009 1:32 a.m. FatBoy:

fostewi: I bought this guitar from Music Maxx located in Nanaimo B.C.on Vancouver Island. I have been dealing with them for quite awhile.I have bought alot of guitars from them.I have been playing this guitar in the store every week for about three month's. Last time I was playing it the owner asked what it would take for me to buy the guitar.It had a$2500,00 price tag on it.Because it was a in store demo.I had been looking for a Country Gent for awhile, but didn't want to pay $2500,00,with tax it puts it close to $3000,00.He told me because it had been inthe store for over 6 months and it was the end of the month, he'd let it go for $1999,00. I had a line on a used one at Tom Lee's Music in Victoria B.C. for $1799,00 but for $200,00 more I took the new one...
- Rated: 2 ↑
Jul 6, 2009 1:39 a.m. fostewi:

FatBoy: Thanks for the info. I guess there are deals to be had if you are patient! But then again, maybe I stumbled on a deal I wasn't looking for that I shouldn't pass up either (like I said at the beginning, I came across the gent looking for a pickguard for a 5122 I just picked up on CL a few days earlier because I figured I wouldn't find an affordable gretsch). I really want to try a newer one (and a Tenny) before I commit 100% though but they are hard to find. There must be some somewhere near by being I am in Toronto...there are 3 60's Gent at "12th Fret" right now but they are all expensive...even the one that needs a lot of work. But I did just found a newer White Falcon close by that I want to check out too.