Miscellaneous Rumbles

Proteus opened a rabbit hole - Tone content exploration

1

Getting down to "brass tax" with the technical detail before the story:**

Here is the site I discovered with Proteus in mind and it will open to the last page I was reading before I bookmarked it:

https://delicious-audio.com...

Towards the top of the page is a horizontal list of different pedal types where "Reverb" is the forth option from the right. Hover your mouse around there and click in to what is a great repository of "go to" info on the reverb universe.

Take a look and tell me what you think but also read the backstory below if you can. Thank you Proteus!

Preface to this thread's plot and the above finding:**

Back around May, I posted in an open thread that was close to wrapping up about Strymon and high prices. This led me to post an alternative about David Gilmour delay/echo hardware and a "hold my ground" approach on finding the pedal that emulates his Binson Echorec.

Ruger added to the fun as he elaborated on Catalinbread's Adineko to pair with my inevitable pulling of the trigger of their Echorec pedal.

Why the concentration of the 2? We both were unwavering in our desire for our need to create a unique atmospheric tone mojo that neither of us thought Strymon or other pedals brought to the table. Enter Protues input....

Tim being Tim was able to add food for thought in a way that did not diminish mine and Ruger's subjective opinions, but rather he took great care in testing what I REALLY knew about options in the marketplace that might be better. He made a strong case for multiple Strymon options, expanded the dialogue, and entered the case for reverb options as well on the premise that "hey, if you're looking for tone atmosphere then make sure you are well-informed".

I politely rebuked his knowledge offering because I knew to stay the course (with budget in mind) that the Echorec scratched a long persisting tonal itch. Now Proteus really gets into it by posting many reverb options and quite helpfully answers many questions I had based on the expanded content of the thread.

Proteus = knowledge + kindness: I made a comment about my being happy with the spring reverb in my amp. To no surprise, Tim guessed my exposure was limited and respected my knowledge but knew I had a lot to learn. He politely made a case that really told me to explore and keep an open mind.

I listened and researched past my boundaries and really became well-informed. This led to a great site that has been a repository of almost all things reverb. Only then did I really understand Tim was way ahead of me to the point that there really was no way to tell me what I didn't know but had to find on my own.

2

Thank you for the nice words, Devil, and the handsome compliment I'm not sure I really deserve.

I do try to avoid antagonizing or alienating anyone, partially because I'm constitutionally averse to confrontation, but also because putting someone on the defensive is a (usually) avoidable way of building unnecessary barriers to whatever suggestion or point I may be trying to make. Unless the object is just to stroke one's own ego with a self-awarded gold star for being right - or to intentionally be combative or divisive, it really never pays to attack or undermine the dignity of another's point of view.


Thanks for the appraisal of my progress - but I can never be sure I'm "way ahead" of anyone, because I'm not confident I know what they're looking for or what their experience is. All I can do as part of a dialogue is listen to what others are saying, and then try honestly to convey my experience where it intersects theirs.

For all I know (or knew), maybe you and Ruger had owned or had hands-on experience with every delay ever made, so that your identification of the Catalinbread pedals as the only fulfillment of your quest was fully supported. It could well have been (and may well be) that I'm the one who's under-informed. And/or, I may hear things very differently than either of you, be in quest of something different, and have different standards of judgment.

So, in fact, while continuing to revel in the range of possibilities offered by the too-many big-box delays and reverbs on my boards, I'm always curious - haunted, actually - by the proposition that much less full-featured pedals, with fewer parameters and less range, may nonetheless have hit on some magical mix of particular properties which does something the big boys just don't quite.

And I'm fascinated by the way in which particular circuit designers (or teams) imprint their taste and aesthetic, as processed through their ears and musical experience, onto the pedals they make. Even with the big boxes there's a sort of "company sound" - Strymon, Eventide, Meris, Source Audio, EHX, Boss, name your contender. But in more limited and purpose-focused pedals the designer's personal stamp is even more evident. And that's for better or worse: I've gradually learned which builders' work rarely suits me (despite their deserved status in the industry). On the other hand, when a builder really nails it, their one-trick (or few-trick) ponies can prove unique.

So despite my preference for stereo mod, delay, and reverb pedals - and/or pedals with lots of knobs and parameters - I still indulge my interest in those specialized ponies.


Which is my way of saying that, while you were digging into research into more delays and reverbs, I got an Adineko. I like it. It does create a particular seductive ambient wash that appeals to me; you can find an ideal setting and live there for weeks. Because I haven't sat down to this particular intensive tweak-n-listen project, I don't know that it does something I can't find in another pedal (or two) I already have. I'm sure others can come close, and I'd be surprised if something(s) else won't prove to get as close as who cares. On the other hand, there's a why-bother argument: the Adineko does what it does effortlessly.

I find the same thing with a couple other delays and reverbs I have: that is, surely their particular superpowers can be found in more sophisticated pedals I already have, but they do what they do so well that they're still compelling, even if much more limited. That includes Earthquaker's Afterneath and Transmisser "stunt" reverbs (which I'm always on the verge of selling, because they don't do enough, until I spend time with them again), Catalinbread's Bicycle pitch-shifting delay, and Mr Black's Downward Spiral pitch-shifting delay. The last two seem silly: I have at least half a dozen other pedals which have pitch-shifting delay functionality. But! Catalinbread's and Mr Black's designers have tweaked every parameter nearly to perfection to make those pedals seductive to the ear, in a way I might never get to in my own knob-turning. Again, kudos to the circuiteers, their ears, and their musicality.

And that's why there are so many builders in the market. While it's true that there are dozens/hundreds of me-too makers who are merely cloning or duplicating, adding little value, there are likely just as many whose mods, remixes, and mashups of those standard designs are significant enough to justify themselves - and a gratifyingly large contingent of builders (both big and small) who come up with fresh and unique propositions.

All part of the compelling fascination of pedals (at least for me).


I'm familiar with the Delicious Audio site; it's one I periodically turn to either when I'm researching a particular pedal and its general marketplace family - or just looking for something to want. It's one of the best - maybe the best - of those sites which try to comprehensively educate, aggregate, and explain. Here's another I generally respect: https://www.bestguitareffec....


Anyway. I'm glad my comments sent you in search of. I remain pretty sure it's better to be more informed than less, because at least at the end of any process of choice, you have that much more confidence you made the right one. (At least for you, and at least at that time.)

3

I looked at the links above and didn't see the source audio Ventris - maybe I missed it. That's my favorite and it's been mentioned here before. Covers a lot of bases and is so tweakable hooked to a pc.

4

The Ventris is a fabulous reverb indeed - arguably the best value in the big-box category (which in my taxonomy includes Strymon Big Sky, Boss RV-500, Empress Reverb, and Eventide H9). With two independent high-quality stereo 'verbs, which can be run separately or together, it's a powerhouse - and a winner for widest-ranging, most pristine multi-mode reverb in the most compact (and affordable) package.

EHX's Oceans 12 is in some ways similar: very compact, dual reverbs, 12 modes, even less expensive. And it sounds pretty amazing - but it's not as deep and tweakable, and doesn't drop your jaw quite as hard at its pure lush depth of field.

5

Gents, pardon me if this is out of place...but as a bass player and a surf fan, I also use Reverb. The best classic sound I've found in a simple pedal is the Boss FRV-1 '63 Fender Reverb pedal. To my ear, it's the closest thing to a Fender reverb tank you can get, and I consider that tank to be the classic standard for reverb. Others may of course disagree.

But it has a permanent place on my pedal board for those occasions when surf raises its beautiful head.

Link

6

So is the Ecorec still giving you what you want? Once I found "my delays", stopped looking.

The delays I'm still rocking (I now have separate pedalboards, one for each amp, which includes my gigging amp that stays at our rehearsal space)... we were "cleaning up/re-organinzing" my music area, and I was tired of pulling pedals off/replacing them, so split the boards up:

w/Supro Tremoverb:
-Boss RE-20 (not sure this one is staying).
-Catalinbread Adineko. (the Adineko is a very old-school sounding effect, as is the Supro)

w/Hot Cat: (delay in the effects loop, for higher-gain applications):
-TC Alter Ego x4 (3 presets available)

w/PRRI:
-Alter Ego v2. (the Alter Egos remain my favorite tape sim delays)

w/Roland Blues Cube Artist (gig amp: delay in loop):
-Mad Professor Dual Blue (I haven't even had a chance to test this one yet; but it's a pretty standard delay, no modulation or anything, but I needed 2 different delays times, footswitchable, and this delay does that.)

7

So is the Ecorec still giving you what you want? Once I found "my delays", stopped looking.

The delays I'm still rocking (I now have separate pedalboards, one for each amp, which includes my gigging amp that stays at our rehearsal space)... we were "cleaning up/re-organinzing" my music area, and I was tired of pulling pedals off/replacing them, so split the boards up:

w/Supro Tremoverb:
-Boss RE-20 (not sure this one is staying).
-Catalinbread Adineko. (the Adineko is a very old-school sounding effect, as is the Supro)

w/Hot Cat: (delay in the effects loop, for higher-gain applications):
-TC Alter Ego x4 (3 presets available)

w/PRRI:
-Alter Ego v2. (the Alter Egos remain my favorite tape sim delays)

w/Roland Blues Cube Artist (gig amp: delay in loop):
-Mad Professor Dual Blue (I haven't even had a chance to test this one yet; but it's a pretty standard delay, no modulation or anything, but I needed 2 different delays times, footswitchable, and this delay does that.)

– ruger9

Oh yeah....The Echorec brings exactly what I was looking for and way more. The "way more" part has inspired me to create tones and melodies that I would've thought were far outside my 12- bar/minor pentatonic blues comfort zone. To be honest, I am still discover textures and tones thru the multiple 4 head combos that seem to deliver an infinite amount of possibilities.

However, when I get back to diving head first into the Rockabilly world, I am getting a Mystery Brain. I know it is subjective but I consider it the platinum standard.

The MB will have to wait though because the Jr. Barnyard is on the list first. Both will have to wait if I decide on to get a Tele that costs more that $1k. The silver Paisley, '50s Vintera Modified, both the Professional II and last year's Pro are in the fray. In the corner of my eye is a used Baja and a couple others.

8

The Ventris is a fabulous reverb indeed - arguably the best value in the big-box category (which in my taxonomy includes Strymon Big Sky, Boss RV-500, Empress Reverb, and Eventide H9). With two independent high-quality stereo 'verbs, which can be run separately or together, it's a powerhouse - and a winner for widest-ranging, most pristine multi-mode reverb in the most compact (and affordable) package.

EHX's Oceans 12 is in some ways similar: very compact, dual reverbs, 12 modes, even less expensive. And it sounds pretty amazing - but it's not as deep and tweakable, and doesn't drop your jaw quite as hard at its pure lush depth of field.

– Proteus

Agree 100% right down to love for the Oceans 12 but a little less robust as the others.....the price though is hard to beat.

My inner James Wilsey has GAS for the Ventris and Big Sky tied for 1st with the Oceans 12 a close 2nd with a very competitive price. Lurking in the shadows of possibility lay Death By Audio's ROOM pedal and Eventide's Blackhole. Walrus options lurking also.

Of course I have the Meris Mercury 7 waiting on the side should Ridley Scott ever call me for his next film!

Proteus certainly helped flex the creative strength of the reverb world and now I'm a kid in a candy store!!!! Thanks Tim!

9

I used to use delay a lot more than I do now. In fact probably the only time I use delay much at all is just slapback on a Gretsch. And by far my favourite for that is the cheap and cheerful TC Flashback. I'm using the mini Flashback at the moment. For clarity, punch, minimal to the extreme tonesuck and especially price (not top of my list of reasons as a rule!) it is absolutely brilliant. Lack of tonesuck is probably the highest priority on my list because I go to so much trouble to get my sound in the first place. I tweak my guitars, build my own OD pedals, build my own amps...I don't need some delay pedal sucking away all my tone goodness!

I do have a Strymon Flint which I use a lot. It's pretty darn wonderful and far more capable than perhaps it should be. I've had a couple of Timelines, Timefactors, DD500s, etc and tried just about every analog delay out there. I recently tried (in a store) the Source Audio Collider and maybe it was the gear I used to test it but I was extremely underwhelmed when I wanted to love it.

For now I'll stick with my Flashback and Strymon Flint. They sound perfect for my needs. Particularly with delay I find that most of that gorgeous complexity of a high end effect disappears as soon as the rest of the band kicks in. That's why I employ the KISS principle.

10

That's why I don't play with a band.


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