The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Miscellaneous Rumbles: One more Palin observation

One more Palin observation

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Sep 18, 2008 4:05 p.m. dubkitty:

deleted--i don't need the chatzerai in my life.
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Sep 18, 2008 4:18 p.m. MR TROUBLE:

Bryherb said: Well, if you really feel everybody is innocent until proven guilty, you have not extended this courtesy to our troops in the past because of your absurd anti-war stance

I'm against the Iraq War. Not all wars. I admire fallen warriors like Michael Murphy, Danny Dietz, and Matt Axelson who died in the Hindu Kush mountains in an extraordinary firefight...and I admire Marcus Luttrel...an anti-liberal who was the lone survivor of that fight.

Do I have to take time out of my busy day to comb thru your old posts to quote you?
I don't know. But you sure have time to make repeated posts that put your ignorance on display for all to see.

So quit gazing at your navel and damning our troops. What is it with you? You hate America so much you believe when we wage war it's for oil or global dominance and killing women and childern?
I hate America? lol. Man you really make me laugh. I feel like I'm debating a republican child. This war IS about oil. Do you think if Iraq's only natural resource was SUGAR or TEA that we'd send 200,000 troops to invade them? Wait on second thought, we did engage in military interventions in south and central america to preserve American corporations like the "United Fruit Company". Haha. Wars over BANANAS!!!

You don't seem to have a problem when our enemy kills 3000 innocent civilians with jet planes but to your warped self hating moonbat ideals we deserved it didn't we??
On 9/11 you were picking your ass. On 9/11, I strapped on a gun and headed off driving like a maniac into the unknown prepared to die. When we invaded Afghanistan to get Bin Laden and his Taliban hosts I was all for it. Afghanistan was the righteous fight and it's too bad that your bunboy Bush squandered it all by attacking a country that never harmed us and getting a lot of good people killed in the process.

I love America, or at least the America that was. I love what America is supposed to be about. My grandfather fought in WW2, some of the same things he fought against, you are apparently a proponent of...things like secret prisons and torture.

We're Americans...we're not supposed to torture people...or set up secret prisons...or engage in pre-emptive war. We're not suppose to violate the Geneva Convention or even look for ways to bypass it. We're not supposed to kidnap people and hold them indefinitely in secret without access to lawyers.

In our desire to defeat the terrorists, we have become what we hated...the Soviet Union...we have become the torturers...the owners of secret prisons...we've become the terrorists.

Maybe YOU are the one that hates America? Spare me your phony patriotism and Bill O'Reillyesque attacks.
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Sep 18, 2008 4:43 p.m. JazzBoxJunky:

This thread reminds me of Lacquer vs. Poly. On one hand you have the old standard that everyone knows,is hard on the environment, and it has it's flaws, but it's familiar, and has worked fairly well over time. On the other hand you have the shiny new slick plastic, that aint any better, yet touts to be, claims to be Earth friendly,yet has inherit problems of it's own. I guess what I'm saying is, nobody is ever going to convince one side, that the other is better, why are we endlessly trying? The down side to these discussions is they turn into attacks, and now people look at members they once chatted freely with as the enemy.....
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Sep 18, 2008 5:21 p.m. MR TROUBLE:

JazzBoxJunky said: The down side to these discussions is they turn into attacks, and now people look at members they once chatted freely with as the enemy.....
It's ok Jazz...I can still chat with a GDP member and learn how to install a Bigsby or solder a pickup wire from them...and still regard them as Class-A Whacko in other areas.

My best friend who I have known from our time on the high school football team, is a Class-A whacko due to some of his political/religious views. One night while I was visiting him in Utah for his wedding, I was the best man, he goes off about the end of days...the apocalypse...how there's going to be some 7 year war with mongrels from hell or something...that it's all gonna start with people disappearing. He said he's not going to be chosen..that he's going to be left here on earth to fight...and that he needed me to fight with him because of my tactical abilities and my skill with firearms. He said that when that shit goes down that I need to come find him in Utah and fight with him.

I was like...wow he's NUTS!!!!

But he's a handyman/contractor by trade. He can build a whole house. He remodeled my parent's bathroom and made it look like something out of a magazine. He's got a real talent in other areas. But 1% of the time, when he goes off on one of these apocolyptic tangents...he's a true whacko. I learn to be tolerant of that part of him that scares the shit out of me.
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Sep 18, 2008 5:38 p.m. Danman:
dubkitty said: and to be cruelly blunt, Europe can express an opinion on our government when they're capable of taking care of themselves without hiding behind the skirts of the US. but that will never happen, because if Europe re-armed Europe would be right back to 1914 before you can say "failed statist policies." i'm really not interested in what the people whose wars killed something like 40 million people in one century have to say about what my country does.

That is all you can say?

Europe has been faithfull to the US for the past 50 years and all you can say is that you are not interested in our opinions because in the past people have been killed here too? The US have been killing people all over this world for decades (and you didn't behave exactly civilized to people living on your own soil in the past either) and still we don't say things like that. That is exactly the arrogance and big talk that causes much of the trouble in this world and that is causing Europe to look in other directions than the US.

Do you really think there is another reason than the US's arrogance and display of ignorance about the world and it's politics that causes the dollar to be worthless and the Euro to be a strong coin. The Euro is taking over because Bush messed up the US position in this world, the dollar is no longer the strong coin that it used to be and it may never be back.

I sincerely hope it will because this mess is not good for the world and not good for the US either. (Although it is great for my vintage gretsch addiction)
edit: ok and now I see it has been deleted!
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Sep 18, 2008 5:49 p.m. dubkitty:

it's not "all i can say": it's all i need to say.
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Sep 18, 2008 6:00 p.m. Danman:

dubkitty: said: it's not "all i can say": it's all i need to say.
No, what we 'need' is that people talk in a civilized manner about subjects without completely dismissing peoples opinions based on complete non issues and with respect to others peoples opinions.

Democracy ends where lack of respect begins!
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Sep 18, 2008 6:06 p.m. dubkitty:

so when are you going to call for the people who agree with you and disagree with me--and who have been by far the most obnoxious posters on this thread--to similarly show "respect"?

[sound of crickets chirping]

that's another thing we learned from the follies of Europe: unilateral disarmament is suicidal.
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Sep 18, 2008 6:23 p.m. Danman:

Ah, so you feel the need to offend and belittle. That is sad and I held you in higher regard.

And I don't know who have been the most obnoxious posters and am not about to go and do a count but I can tell you they certainly werent European.
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Sep 18, 2008 6:32 p.m. dubkitty:

so the answer to my question, which you have attemped to avoid with less skill that alacrity, is "never." as i expected.
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Sep 18, 2008 6:32 p.m. Ric12string:

I, for one, am very disturbed over the change in how the United States has come to be viewed as a member of the world community. At one time, we were a leader because we usually took the moral high road. We avoided war unless it was something that was unavoidable. We maintained human rights, and legal rights, for all, even those who had once been our enemy combatants. We believed in due process. We believed in providing prisoners of war with legal counsel, and the right to be tried within some reasonable period of time after their capture.

But, what has troubled me even more is that, in the name of the war on terrorism, we have sacrificed our own civil rights. I am very bothered by the fact that the Bush administration has advocated for warrantless wiretaps or the right to conduct surveillance of our own citizens without probable cause to do so. I don't like the fact that we have maintained secret prisons, or that we hold prisoners of war without ever bringing them to a trial. I really abhor the fact that we have perpetrated acts upon our prisoners of war that have been performed for no other purpose than to cause them to experience shame in light of their religious beliefs. (Remember the naked dog piles?) I don't like the fact that we terrorized the prisoners at Abu Ghraib by making them believe we were going to electrocute them. I don't like the fact that we torture our prisoners of war by waterboarding them. Even John McCain calls that terrorism. These acts are not what I grew up to understand was how Americans behaved.

When we couldn't enlist the support of long-standing major allies, such as Germany and France, to join with us in this war, that was a sign to me that we needed to move cautiously. Instead, we relied upon countries like Iceland, Honduras, and the Dominican Republic to flesh out our "multi-national forces."

I lived in Germany for a number of years and I know that there is nothing wrong with listening to what our friends say about how we are acting. If you can't rely upon a friend to tell you when you are screwing up, whom should you listen to?

I want our next Administration, whoever that may be come January, to act more like a world leader by taking the high moral ground. I want the next Administration to consult with other world leaders and to stop thinking that we, and only we, have the right answers.

Regardless of who wins, the first Tuesday in November can't arrive too soon for me.
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Sep 18, 2008 6:55 p.m. Danman:

Dubkitty: I must say I did misread your post where you say: so when are you going to call for the people who agree with you and disagree with me--and who have been by far the most obnoxious posters on this thread--to similarly show "respect"?

I am not talking about other people. I have not taken part in this 'discussion' untill today because I don't usually join in political discussions. I however strongly disagreed with something GentlBen said. I posted that without being offensive and was met with hostility. I know both sides because I live in Europe but I have also lived in the US and I am an american citizen. And I don't like being offended and belittled if I state my opinion about something I disagree with. And to state that you didn't expect much of what I was going to say offends me and is absolutley not necessary. I have nothing to do with what others post here and the way they post it.

Thank you!
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Sep 18, 2008 7:41 p.m. MarkW:

I hate political and religious conversations!

They never end well from my perspective. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what I have observed under the Bush Admin is a bully-boy attitude with regard to patriotism and a country club arrogance.

I remember very vividly standing next to the fence in California when I returned from Thailand. There was a small group of protestors and they spit at me. Obviously it was a little confusing to me but in reality the protestors had no idea what they were up to. I spent many years avoiding any discussions about the Viet Nam war and avoided everything about it for a long time.

I have never supported the killing of our troops while always applauded their brave and gallant actions.

I deplore people who talk about war and never serve. It is their right in this great country but I find it personally disgusting that they sit on their inactive asses and encourage our youth to go die in a foreign land.

So if the shoe fits I guess it is yours!

God bless our troops and screw the politicians that have never served.

Oh I admire McCain for his service but I deplore his willingness to waste more Americans lives. Oh well I fell in to the trap.
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Sep 18, 2008 8:45 p.m. Calacas:

To My Fellow Americans,

This ain't no hollywood movie. It's about time we realized we aren't the good guys in white hats. Our history is just as soiled as any other "democratic" nation...but through our representative republic and its democratic process we still have the opportunity to realize the potential of this great nation.

So if you haven't checked the expiration date on your platitudes lately maybe you should.

And one other thing, what have you done today to help continue to make this nation great? I am continuously amazed by the false "sense of entitlement" that so many Americans have these days... "nation of whiners" indeed.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:01 p.m. bonedaddy:

GentlBen said: Also, why do all of these Euros have to get involved in our political debates? Do we tell you which commie socialist pinko should run your pathetic country? You would all be goose stepping through burned out streets if it weren't for us.
So I have to take exception to this. Us? Us? What exactly, did YOU do? The America of nearly 60+ years ago isn't exactly the same as the greedy, latte sipping, me generation starbucks junkies that seem to abound these days.

No the folks who made those sacrifices in WWII have little in common with the "hooray for me and screw you" folks running around today.

And if you'd like to spin the clock back a little further, where would we, America the nation, be, without the French during the American revolution? I'm pretty sure Louis' court had quite a bit to do with us winning our freedom, certainly financially. Benjamin Franklin did quite a bit of dealing with the French to help finance all that, or did you forget, because it's easier to call them cheese eating surrender monkeys because we don't agree with them? The US didn't win WWII all on it's own.

Don't bring that tired sentiment of what 'we' did. WE are a couple of generations removed from the heros of WWII.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:15 p.m. Calacas:

bonedaddy said: Don't bring that tired sentiment of what 'we' did. WE are a couple of generations removed from the heros of WWII.

Amen bonedaddy.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:29 p.m. dubkitty:

does that mean i can also be spared the recitation of every American sin since 1620? after all, i wasn't alive--and half of my family weren't even in the US--when the Indians were driven out, when slaves could be bought and sold, or when women couldn't vote.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:33 p.m. dubkitty:

danman said: to state that you didn't expect much of what I was going to say offends me and is absolutley not necessary. I have nothing to do with what others post here and the way they post it.

that's an entirely fair point. i apologize for lumping you in with a group of people or a viewpoint that you may not share.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:33 p.m. dubkitty:

gaaah...server error.
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Sep 18, 2008 9:36 p.m. bonedaddy:

dubkitty said: does that mean i can also be spared the recitation of every American sin since 1620? after all, i wasn't alive--and half of my family weren't even in the US--when the Indians were driven out, when slaves could be bought and sold, or when women couldn't vote.
? Not sure I know what that means....
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Sep 18, 2008 10:00 p.m. dubkitty:

that was in response to your post: "Don't bring that tired sentiment of what 'we' did. WE are a couple of generations removed from the heros of WWII." point being: we are also now generations removed from the ills which settlement of the Americas created. but that hasn't stopped people in this discussion from, e.g., hauling the Indian Wars out to bash the US with. if we're going to dismiss one because of distance in time, logical consistency demands we also dismiss the other for the same reason.
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Sep 18, 2008 10:06 p.m. gretschiam:

So all this came out of a comment that Caribu Barbie is kinda hot? Good thing I didn't tell him about the knife.
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Sep 19, 2008 12:29 a.m. bonedaddy:

Gotcha DK, but that's not been brought up here, so I wasn't aware of any relevance in those things.

It's just a personal observation, that NO ONE on this forum should be taking any credit for what happened in WWII.

There's such a smugness and condescending note associated with the whole "look what WE did for Europe during WWII".

Somehow, Europe, particularly France is forever indebted to us. Please. It's likely the other way around, if we want to have that debate. We'd have NEVER gotten off the ground without the French.

I just get sick of the "us" thing, when WE didn't do a damn thing.

So, since we can't and shouldn't wear the blame of sins of generations past, i.e. slavery and lots of other things, we shouldn't try to take credit for things we had absolutely nothing to do with.

That's all not more or less. Nothing implied at all.
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Sep 19, 2008 2:34 a.m. fbama73:

going back to the first page of the thread- the comment about Sarah Palin "beheading a baby seal, drinking the blood, yelling I am woman hear me rawr! then belching- and the Republicans all got hard-ons"

I'm not a Republican, but I got a hard-on just reading that!

I'm no Democrat, either- both of our major parties fail to represent several values I hold dear.

And on the subject of the name-calling, and flaming. You'd do well to remember (whichever side you choose) that dissent is the purest form of patriotism. Being able to have a civil discussion with disagreement is a sign of maturity and intelligence. Flaming and name calling just makes your own viewpoints look less valid.

MarkW (and all of our GDP servicepeople) thank you for serving my country! Your service is appreciated!
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Sep 19, 2008 7:44 a.m. GentlBen:

Let's see: Mr Trouble can call conservatives turds, idiots, nuts and wish them "good luck at St. Peters Gates" without reprisal. On the other hand, a conservative speaks his mind and gets attacked by Proteus and accused of being "foolish, and out of place". I guess we know where he stands. This entire thread is out of place.