Miscellaneous Rumbles

More watts or more speakers?

1

I did a Church Worship band gig yesterday. House mix was fine but... I was 15 feet from the drummer. Rogers set. He was playing loud! I'm on a 75 watt Line 6 Spider 4. One 12" speaker. However, I've got this amp on a tilt back stand pointed at my head as a monitor so I can hear myself. What surprised me was it was barely enough. I would have liked to have more presence from my amp....Bottom Line point / question...Do you think I needed 2 12" speakers as opposed to more wattage?

3

The main thing when your playing live is to get the mix and the overall volume right for the venue. If your not a stadium gig then you do not need to be skull breaking loud. The band has to practice their volume levels as much as their song list. It is most times the thing that can make a group of talented people sound real bad. Way back when I had the chance to play bass with a church group in English town NJ. we played at a level so that when the congregation wanted to clap and sing along they became a proper part of the mix. Just my opinion.

4

that church needs to invest in a plexi shield for the drums. unless this is some kind of hardcore progressive rock church, most of the congregation will be put off sooner that later by this drummer.
The goal in worship is transparency so that the worship time is between the congregant and their worship focus (this isnt the place to get all christianeze) and if the music from the stage is overpowering the congregation hearing themselves sing, this has now become a performance from the band and not the vehicle it is meant to be.

That said, your amp is PLENTY loud. Even a Vox AC15 1x12 combo can be piercing loud in a 300 seater all wood and glass house of worship. Is your amp on a chair or nice tilt back stand FACING you? It should be, not behind you.

If youre worship leader insists that the stage volume be loud as you've shared and the senior pastor /elder board are okay with this then I would lovingly but firmly request this for meaty paws the drummer

and check the decibel meter from noshield until they add just the simple shield (the final product is ridiculous)

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

5

See just by reading the title alone I knew the answer was BOTH ;)

6

more speakers@ half the volume... ;-)

– sam McAfee

more speakers@ half the volume... ;-)

– cyclopssam

This.

Im running a 50 watt per side stereo tube power amp rig, but its barely half up. However im running into two 2x12s. Gloriously full clean sound, very present but never loud or overbearing.

7

more speakers@ half the volume... ;-)

– cyclopssam

This.

Im running a 50 watt per side stereo tube power amp rig, but its barely half up. However im running into two 2x12s. Gloriously full clean sound, very present but never loud or overbearing.

– Mustafa Stefan Dill

more speakers@ half the volume... ;-)

– cyclopssam

This.

Im running a 50 watt per side stereo tube power amp rig, but its barely half up. However im running into two 2x12s. Gloriously full clean sound, very present but never loud or overbearing.

– Mustafa Stefan Dill

most churches even small ones have good acoustics so a little goes a LONG way

50/50 watt'er would be right on "that line"... :)

8

WIREDTURTLE said..."this has now become a performance from the band and not the vehicle it is meant to be. "

You hit the nail on the head squarely!

This band removes the plexiglass shield. and the music is so loud the people attending can hardly hear themselves sing.

I direct the other two bands at this Church. We do things entirely different.

9
  1. wiredturtle is correct.

  2. That Line6 amp is probably not performing anything like you might expect from 75 watts. (Guarantee you if you had a 60-watt Fender Twin, you'd rip your own head off. But don't get one, because...

  3. chrisbo is right that stage (platform?) levels need to be moderate, and...

  4. under those conditions, I bet no more than 15-30 watts would be adequate, and...

  5. Mustafa has it right: use more speakers, perhaps one behind you pointed at your head, the other sidefilling. Have more sound, not louder sound.

  6. BUT - you don't say what kind of tones you're using. I don't know what kind of music you play, with what sort of tone – but I can't help observing that Line6 is known for specializing in "modern" tones. Heavily overdriven, face-peeling triple-rectified bees-in-a-jar fury. (I know they do clean and moderately overdriven tones too, and that may be where you are.)

I'm just noting that very gainy, über-processed shreddy tones can sound oddly small when coming from a single 12" speaker. Sometimes a cleaner tone can sound bigger. (And, if you're playing with a largish group, fewer notes can sound like more.)

If any of these wildly thrown strokes hit near any nailheads, you might try adjusting tones. Less reverb, lower gain, less effect processing, turn some tone knobs.

(And if you're NOT using the Line6 for those kinds of tones...a different, simpler, tubier amp might yield a more present sound right from the git-go.)

12

Praise the Lord!

  1. Get rid of the plexiglass.

  2. Tell the drummer to use lighter sticks for the opening and closing songs, focus on dynamics and to use brushes for the worship songs. This is what i do as a drummer at my church.

  3. Get a tube amp.

Amen.

13

hah hah Buddy you would have loved me as a worship leader, I took away the plexi shields AND the acoustic drums for a set of tupperware "ROLAND" electronic drums. Man that was the best thing EVER for my sound man, the worship team AND the congregation..but the drummer's detested them. :) We did keep the real cymbals, tupperware cymbals are pure evil. and I had plexi shields on the guitarists regardless.

ps. in all my years playing in houses of worship, I was always able to control my own sound best with a closed back guitar cab facing me. Seemed like everytime I'd show up with my vox or fender combo, they'd tell me ALWAYS I was too loud. Never with the blonde bassman.

14

I prefer pipe organs in churches :D

Our church has a fairly live acoustic, not one that has a purposely dead acoustic in order to control all sound through a PA. Whenever a guitar is used it barely needs amplification the sound carries so well.

15

When we bought the acoustic set and built the plexiglass structure, I tried to stop them. I came from a band that had the Roland digital kit. It was the solution. However...The drummers got their way. Unfortanetly, now everyone suffers for the poor decision.

16

Proteus...I agree with all of your points.

18

Tavo, as long as you used real cymbals the Rolands are decent. You are forgiven!

If a drummer is disciplined with dynamics (I really try!) you can get away with a really warm sounding acoustic kit in church. I bought a 1970's Slingerland kit for our church with a 24" X 14" 5 ply bass drum, an 12" X 8" 3 ply tom and a 16" X 16" 3 ply floor tom and it sounds crisp and fat. You don't want a drum kit with big old 80's style power toms and Remo pinstripe heads. Acoustic drums for a church setting should deliver more of an open, airy jazz or pop rock tone.

I think it is unfortunate that many church drummers are asked to play electronic drums because they are unable to play well at lower volumes. It took me a while because as a drummer you have to feel the music and it's hard to really lay in to the groove if you have to play lighter than your used to. I most often use brushes for all the worship songs and lighter sticks for the opening and closing songs. Our band uses acoustic guitars, an electric bass and an acoustic piano for the church services and only pulls out the electric guitars for special shows. So far nobody has told me I play too loud at a service.

Roland makes some great and versatile electronic drums today but most of the church services I've been to that use electronic drums the drums sound sterile because of what they end up running them through for amplification. Really good acoustic drums still produce the best tone.

The plexiglass issue is something else entirely. It's like building a wall between the instrument and the audience. The tone the audience hears is muffled and muddy. Only if you mic everything and run it through a good system does the plexiglass method work. If you're not going to mic anything you might as well just play bongos because the drums will sound terrible out front.


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