Miscellaneous Rumbles

It’s RRHOF Time Again!

51

I'm gonna make my own Hall of Fame---with blackjack and hookers. ---Bender Bending Rodriguez

52

Popular Music Hall Of Fame. then someone else can open the Museums of Death Metal, Yacht Rock, and Great Bands From Manchester. to be that inclusive they'd also need more material on C&W, which by some lights has been the most popular genre in the US this century along with broadly defined "hip-hop."

– macphisto

I kind of get excluding country while admitting metal and hip-hop. The latter two evolved out of rock 'n' roll. Country has its own distinct lineage (although you could make the argument that it has largely converged with rock at this point).

53

but they've admitted a plethora of blues, jazz, and soul/R&B artists, which is half of where "rock & roll" came from. why not the other half? think of it as a Unified Field Theory Of American Popular Music.

54

if they werent "making it rain" at the Strip Clubs, getting Arrested for Murder and Blowing $25 Million Dollars on surgically embedded forehead Jewelry

Yeah because "rock" stars have never done any of those things, they just generally have the privilege of being white when they act out.

And I hate to break it to you, but someone's playing the instruments on those hip hop tracks, they just don't get their names on the album covers.

I get it, you don't like rap, but let's not pretend someone like Jay Z or Dr. Dre hasn't had as much influence on popular music and culture as Led Zeppelin or Buddy Holly.

– Otter

Most of the instrumentation I hear in modern music production of any genre is played by something rather than someone. Even the real instruments are usually lined up to the grid and quantized.

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

I'm still dreaming for you Dr. King.

55

if they werent "making it rain" at the Strip Clubs, getting Arrested for Murder and Blowing $25 Million Dollars on surgically embedded forehead Jewelry

Yeah because "rock" stars have never done any of those things, they just generally have the privilege of being white when they act out.

And I hate to break it to you, but someone's playing the instruments on those hip hop tracks, they just don't get their names on the album covers.

I get it, you don't like rap, but let's not pretend someone like Jay Z or Dr. Dre hasn't had as much influence on popular music and culture as Led Zeppelin or Buddy Holly.

– Otter

So now youre making this Racial ? Yes because I remember back when the East Coast Prog Rock Bands went to war with the West Coast Power Ballad Rockers.

But here you go.

https://raptology.com/list-...

LIST OF MURDERED HIP HOP MUSICIANS The following is a list of notable hip hop musicians who have been murdered.

A 2015 study concluded that murder was the cause of 51.5% of U.S. hip hop musician deaths.[1] The study noted that this figure refers primarily to premature deaths as most hip hop musicians have not yet lived long enough to fall into the highest-risk ages for heart- and liver-related illnesses.

Name Date of death Age Location of death Cause of death Ref. Scott La Rock August 27, 1987 25 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [2] Paul C July 17, 1989 24 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [3] D-Boy Rodriguez October 6, 1990 22 Dallas, Texas, U.S. Shot and killed [4][5] Charizma December 16, 1993 20 Milpitas, California, U.S. Shot and killed [6][7] Stretch November 30, 1995 27 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [8] Seagram July 31, 1996 26 Oakland, California, U.S. Shot and killed [9][10] Tupac Shakur September 13, 1996 25 Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S. Shot and killed [11][12][13] Yaki Kadafi November 10, 1996 19 Orange, New Jersey, U.S. Shot and killed [14] The Notorious B.I.G. March 9, 1997 24 Los Angeles, California, U.S. Shot and killed [15][16][17] Fat Pat February 3, 1998 27 Houston, Texas, U.S. Shot and killed [18][19] Big L February 15, 1999 24 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [20][21][22] Freaky Tah March 28, 1999 27 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [23] Bugz May 21, 1999 21 Grand Rapids, Michigan, U.S. Shot and run over [24] DJ Uncle Al September 10, 2001 32 Miami, Florida, U.S. Shot and killed [25][26] Jam Master Jay October 30, 2002 37 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [27] Sabotage January 24, 2003 29 São Paulo, São Paulo, Brazil Shot and killed [28][29] Camoflauge May 19, 2003 21 Savannah, Georgia, U.S. Shot and killed [30] Half a Mill October 24, 2003 30 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [31] Soulja Slim November 26, 2003 26 New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S. Shot and killed [32][33] Mac Dre November 1, 2004 34 Kansas City, Missouri, U.S. Shot and killed [34] Blade Icewood April 19, 2005 28 Detroit, Michigan, U.S. Shot and killed [35] Proof April 11, 2006 32 Detroit, Michigan, U.S. Shot and killed [36][37][38] Big Hawk May 1, 2006 36 Houston, Texas, U.S. Shot and killed [39] VL Mike April 20, 2008 32 New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S. Shot and killed [40] Dolla May 18, 2009 21 Los Angeles, California, U.S. Shot and killed [41][42][43] Lele July 1, 2010 23 Trujillo Alto, Puerto Rico Shot and killed [44] Magnolia Shorty December 20, 2010 28 New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S. Shot and killed [45] Bad News Brown February 11, 2011 33 Montreal, Quebec, Canada Murdered [46] Adán Zapata June 1, 2012 21 San Nicolás, Nuevo León, Mexico Shot and killed [47] Lil Phat June 7, 2012 19 Sandy Springs, Georgia, U.S. Shot and killed [48] MC Daleste July 7, 2013 20 Paulínia, São Paulo, Brazil Shot and killed [49] Pavlos Fyssas September 18, 2013 34 Keratsini, Athens, Greece Stabbed to death [50] Depzman September 21, 2013 18 Birmingham, West Midlands, England Stabbed to death [51] Doe B December 28, 2013 22 Montgomery, Alabama, U.S. Shot and killed [52] The Jacka February 2, 2015 37 Oakland, California, U.S. Shot and killed [53] Flabba March 9, 2015 37 Alexandra, Gauteng, South Africa Stabbed to death [54] Chinx Drugz May 17, 2015 31 New York City, New York, U.S. Shot and killed [55] Bankroll Fresh March 4, 2016 28 Atlanta, Georgia, U.S. Shot and killed [56] 3-2 November 10, 2016 44 Houston, Texas, U.S. Shot and killed [57] XXXTentacion June 18, 2018 20 Deerfield Beach, Florida, U.S. Shot and killed [58] Jimmy Wopo June 18, 2018 21 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S. Shot and killed [59][60] Smoke Dawg June 30, 2018 21 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Shot and killed [61] Young Greatness October 29, 2018 34 New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S. Shot and killed [62] Feis January 1, 2019 32 Rotterdam, South Holland, Netherlands Shot and killed [63] Kevin Fret January 10, 2019 25 Río Piedras, San Juan, Puerto Rico Shot and killed [64] Nipsey Hussle March 31, 2019 33 Los Angeles, California, U.S. Shot and killed [65] Pop Smoke February 19, 2020 20 Los Angeles, California, U.S. Shot and killed [66] Huey June 25, 2020 31 Kinloch, Missouri, U.S. Shot and killed [67] Share this:

56

So "rappers get murdered" is the reason they don't belong in the hall of fame? Forgive me if I don't follow the logic.

Many of those guys come from underprivileged communities where crime is an unfortunate part of life. Knowing the prevailing demographic here, I won't get into the social and historical circumstances surrounding that. They made music in an emerging style which they used to speak out about poverty, drugs, crime, depression, and social injustice. Sounds an awful lot like the story of blues music...

We've already discussed that the RnRHoF is hardly exclusive towards emergent genres, so musically tell me why we must draw the line at hip hop?

Rock, country, and jazz aren't without murderers, rapists, or drug addicts. In fact many existing RnRHoF members have been victims of murder or addiction. Off the top of my head, let's say Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, John Bonham, John Lennon. Indeed two of the unfortunate gentlemen on your own list are already in the hall of fame, so that barn door's been open for a while.

And you've probably never bothered to listen to their music while you make these judgments. Do yourself a favor and try the Makaveli album by Tupac or "Ready to Die" by B.I.G (I'll admit, an unlucky title there). I'll bet you at least start tapping your foot before your head explodes.

57

So "rappers get murdered" is the reason they don't belong in the hall of fame? Forgive me if I don't follow the logic.

Many of those guys come from underprivileged communities where crime is an unfortunate part of life. Knowing the prevailing demographic here, I won't get into the social and historical circumstances surrounding that. They made music in an emerging style which they used to speak out about poverty, drugs, crime, depression, and social injustice. Sounds an awful lot like the story of blues music...

We've already discussed that the RnRHoF is hardly exclusive towards emergent genres, so musically tell me why we must draw the line at hip hop?

Rock, country, and jazz aren't without murderers, rapists, or drug addicts. In fact many existing RnRHoF members have been victims of murder or addiction. Off the top of my head, let's say Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, John Bonham, John Lennon. Indeed two of the unfortunate gentlemen on your own list are already in the hall of fame, so that barn door's been open for a while.

And you've probably never bothered to listen to their music while you make these judgments. Do yourself a favor and try the Makaveli album by Tupac or "Ready to Die" by B.I.G (I'll admit, an unlucky title there). I'll bet you at least start tapping your foot before your head explodes.

– Otter

" "rappers get murdered" is the reason they don't belong in the hall of fame? "

Feel Free to quote me where I stated that. Ill be waiting.

Rappers dont belong in the HOF simply because They are NOT Rock. You keep trying hard to make this a Racial /Social/Monetary Issue which it is not.

BTW, I Looked up the song "White Girl" from the Great Los Angeles Rock N Roll band "X", and this GARBAGE poopped up on my computer.

XXXTENTACION - WHITE GIRL

Now run along with your saggy pants and gold teeth grill and go listen to some more of this Rock N Roll RAP stuff you keep harping about.

58

I take it you didn't listen to the Tupac record?

59

I take it you didn't listen to the Tupac record?

– Otter

Tupac Amaru made a Record ? They didnt even have Electricity back then.

60

I will never listen to Irish folk music. Have you seen what the IRA has done? Bunch of thugs.

61

I will never listen to Irish folk music. Have you seen what the IRA has done? Bunch of thugs.

– Afire

And to think I don't listen to Irish folk music because of the sound.... Hmmmm, same as hip hop.

62

I will never listen to Irish folk music. Have you seen what the IRA has done? Bunch of thugs.

– Afire

There's nothing that sickens me more than people all over the world singing IRA songs ,usually on Paddy's day ,they should try living in Belfast for 50 years,murdering bastards ,that's what they are.

And let me tell you,contrary to what you see or hear from the media it's still going on ,on both sides of the divide the men with the woolly faces run the show.

A couple of years ago the Loyalist terrorists killed one of their own in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon with a packed road of people,but the Government said the cease fire wasn't broken!
It's a joke.

Sorry for the rant,now back to our regular program .

64

There's nothing that sickens me more than people all over the world singing IRA songs ,usually on Paddy's day ,they should try living in Belfast for 50 years,murdering bastards ,that's what they are.

The worst thing is that subject matter aside, most of the songs are total rubbish to boot.

66

I think I'm with Dee Snider on this one....Over important aHoles..as it were.

68

When I made my one visit to the HoF, I was struck by the several groups of students - obviously on class trips - being ushered around the museum by the minders. Some were elementary age, some were older.

It was apparent (and then immediately self-obvious, once given some thought) that these people do not have pre-conceived notions about the evolution of this music previous generations have cared about, and been shaped by. They don't have our first-hand knowledge born of having been there as it was happening. They have no gradually inculturated basis for judgment to what happened, in what order, why, or who made it happen - or to support their own independent judgments about what's good or bad.

And those students are just emblematic of everyone who follows us in time, and who will - or will not, if they aren't exposed to it - inherit the musical culture of the last 70 or 80 years. We forget how old we are.

Thankfully, for the moment anyway, we have the incredible availability of every form of music, all its nooks and crannies, via the internet. There's no one over-arching narrative to tie it al together, but those who take an interest can find (more or less accurate) overviews of various genres and sub-genres - and even how it all might fit together - online. (Along with videos and recordings we could never have imagined having such wide-open access to when we were listening for our favorites to be played on the radio, saving our lunch money to buy 45s and LPs, taping friends' records onto cassette, and even tracking down CDs of new artists.) So it's not like the Rockhall has, or will have, anything like the last word in curating the music, or passing judgment on its artists.

But that doesn't make it irrelevant.

Brick-n-mortar museums and other such repositories and curators of history and culture do, over the years, have considerable impact in preserving, relaying, and interpreting the past. Maybe because what I learned at a jazz museum in New Orleans largely satisfied my curiosity, I haven't been motivated to delve much further into the genesis and evolution of that music from, say, the mid-19th century up to Buddy Bolden, and then Louis Armstrong. Was what I learned there accurate or complete? Unless I undertake further study, I don't know.

The RRHoF isn't just a scrapbook or greatest hits overview for the benefit of those who've lived some significant portion of the years, and the music, it chronicles. For many who make the trip (and, I think, more than we instinctively realize), it's a primary source of information about the music.

To the extent such institutions matter - and I think they do - and despite our reflexive cynicism about how the decisions are made, and by whom, it does matter who gets in. What matters more is who is left out. When you read Dee Snider's comments, it's clear he recognizes as well that it matters - and that's why he wants to make enough noise that his genre (and others) gets better representation, if based only on sales figures and the longevity and persistence of many snubbed artists' careers.

He's exactly right that what gets in is what's cool to the Jan Wenner/Rolling Stone school of cultural "critics," and from my personal experience during college with an early RS/Rockhall curator, he's equally right about their haughty elitism and assumption of the right to act as gatekeepers to our collective memories and cultural heritage. Their (big city, privileged, new establishment) socially classist exclusivity has been a barrier for decades to the inclusion of the whole story of the music.

So it's tempting to throw up our hands in disgust and say the rockhall doesn't matter. But we should all be intellectually honest enough to admit there's some sour grapes in that attitude. (To check that, ask yourself what you'd think of the Hall if, year after year, it had admitted the artists you think should belong.)

The reason we can get disgusted, defensive, cynical, and dismissive about this, year after year, is that it does matter. We resent an institution that claims to stand for what's best in the music we all grew up with, care about, and believe (correctly) that we have earned the right to judge - and yet consistently leaves our experience out the story.


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