Miscellaneous Rumbles

Irma…Hurricanes in general

76

If you had 99 doctors telling you that you needed a surgery or you would die.....would you listen to the one doctor who you found who didn't agree..... and that you only needed to drink ginger ale.....even after you found out he was paid by Canada Dry to tell you that?

77

If you had 99 doctors telling you that you needed a surgery or you would die.....would you listen to the one doctor who you found who didn't agree..... and that you only needed to drink ginger ale.....even after you found out he was paid by Canada Dry to tell you that?

– guitarcapo

Replace "ginger ale" with "many available drugs" and "canada dry" with "Merck or Bayer", and you're getting somewhere.

Statins lower cholesterol, statins are safe, statins decrease mortality. Really? Says who? Merck. Oh. Well in that case, it MUST be true.

(pssst: it's not. Newest studies.)

But hey- again, no skin off my nose. Remain ignorant at your own risk. (and I don't mean that in a name-calling way: I mean it literally: unknowing.)

78

Was wondering when guitarcapo might be back...

How did your luck hold up in Naples?

79

Re that letter signed by 49 people criticizing NASA's climate science -

Here's a knowledgeable response, if you care to read it: https://www.skepticalscienc...

None of the 49 are climate scientists.

It is kinda like 49 recording engineers signing a letter criticizing how an expert luthier reglues broken guitar headstocks. "We think he's doing it wrong," even though the results are excellent.

80

I still remember the big climate thread of 2010, btw.

81

I still remember the big climate thread of 2010, btw.

– sleepy

I still remember the global COOLING fear mongering of the 1970's

82

There's a cool trend going on around the World. Even here in the US!

Regardless of weather (pun intended) patterns, many countries and communities are realizing that if they shut down their coal fired electric utilities and replace them with Wind and Solar, they don't gotta buy coal no more, and the ladies hanging their wash out on the line don't complain no more either!

......yeah, natural gas has replaced coal in lots of plants already as a cheaper cleaner step along the way to eventual wind or solar, so that's a step in the right direction as well, as long as the pipes don't leak.

Electricity from the latest gen solar cells is coming down to around 4 cents a KWH in some locations, and fossil fuels can't begin to compete at those prices. New Battery Mega-factories are under construction to store the excess electricity generated.

They're even working on solar powered roadways that help keep vehicle batteries charged even while they're driving on the roads! Cool! And once ya see the wind farm completed, ya never see a coal train or oil tanker or gas pipe buried near the facility! No waste products to haul away and dispose of either!

We'd expect good ol' Blue California to be at the forefront of solar and wind power, but tons of Red States are saying that Global Warming has nothing to do with being fiscally responsible in using wind and solar just to keep their costs down. Gotta luv it!

Almost looks like insisting "Global Warming is a hoax" is nothing more than a litmus test to prove one is really in their favorite ideological niche, and not much more.

While we're arguing weather it's true or not, economic forces and advancing technology will be systematically shutting down coal mines and oil wells and fracking facilities.

......right now, somewhere in the World, a Wind-turbine farm is going up, and a coal fired facility is shutting down. Lungs gotta luv it!

83

"Almost looks like insisting "Global Warming is a hoax" is nothing more than a litmus test to prove one is really in their favorite ideological niche, and not much more."

Ditto "man-made climate change is irrefutable".

"While we're arguing weather it's true or not, economic forces and advancing technology will be systematically shutting down coal mines and oil wells and fracking facilities."

That would actually be great.... provided it can supply the same amount of energy, as affordably, as fossil fuels. Provided it isn't mandated by politically-driven dogma such as the Paris Accords, and money going into the pockets of people with friends in high places (Solyndra).

84

Consensus is not science.

Instead of blindly accepting group-think, I implore you to do your own research.... lots of evidence to the contrary out there, that should be considered and not dismissed out-of-hand. Before making a decision on an issue, you should gather ALL the information- not just that which is fed to you- and form your own opinion instead of accepting those of group-think.

And don't bother addressing me, F107- I refuse to go round-and-round with you lol.

– ruger9

86

Ruger, if you look at the first three entries that turn up in the Google search you linked to above, you'll notice that they begin with the following snippets of text:

This intensification of weather and climate extremes . . .

Changes in extreme weather and climate events . . .

What is the relationship between global warming, climate, and weather? . . .

Note that all three of these sentences refer to weather and climate as separate topics, as they are indeed not the same.

87

Whatever fits your narrative, guys. Your choice.

http://www.climatedepot.com...

‘83% Consensus’?! 285 Papers From 1960s-’80s Reveal Robust Global Cooling Scientific ‘Consensus’

88

This is a good read - "The Myth of 1970s Global Cooling Consensus"

"A review of the literature suggests that, to the contrary, greenhouse warming even then dominated scientists’ thinking about the most important forces shaping Earth’s climate on human time scales. More importantly than showing the falsehood of the myth, this review shows the important way scientists of the time built the foundation on which the cohesive enterprise of modern climate science now rests."

It covers the history of climate science of that time.

ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/131047.pdf

(It's a pdf)

89

Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for illustrating how current group-think can't be trusted no matter how many scientists form a "consensus".

When they prove (not come to a group-think "opinion") that man's actions are indeed causing "global warning", I will believe it. Until then, my mind is open.

Is yours?

But then, we've been thru all this before, in addition to all the great points Curt made, you also must consider the phenomena of "confirmation bias" in "scientific studies". And we've been thru that before, too. Some people refuse to see..... perhaps due to "normalcy bias"? Or simply an underlying desire to conform to group-thing instead of questioning? Because "going along with the crowd" feels "safer"? IDK. I don't go along with the crowd much.

In the meantime, I think I'll check the news and see how the keys are faring.... since that's what this thread was supposed to be about...

90

I wonder if we'll have a Hurricane named Marc this year?

....like in Morano?

Interesting character with quite a history.

91

Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for illustrating how current group-think can't be trusted no matter how many scientists form a "consensus".

When they prove (not come to a group-think "opinion") that man's actions are indeed causing "global warning", I will believe it. Until then, my mind is open.

Is yours?

But then, we've been thru all this before, in addition to all the great points Curt made, you also must consider the phenomena of "confirmation bias" in "scientific studies". And we've been thru that before, too. Some people refuse to see..... perhaps due to "normalcy bias"? Or simply an underlying desire to conform to group-thing instead of questioning? Because "going along with the crowd" feels "safer"? IDK. I don't go along with the crowd much.

In the meantime, I think I'll check the news and see how the keys are faring.... since that's what this thread was supposed to be about...

– ruger9

Despite what you insist above, I wouldn't consider your mind "open."

92

Despite what you insist above, I wouldn't consider your mind "open."

– Itchin For Gretschin

You'd be wrong. I just require more than "popular sentiment" for me to believe something is fact.

93

Regardless of which 'camp' you're in - global warming is caused by man or global warming is just another repeat in the continuously cycling of the earth's temperature - the fact remains that the earth's overall temperature has been and is continuing to be, on the rise. Two facts are irrefutable, regardless of their cause: the oceans are warming, as evidenced by the Arctic Ocean having open water in ever increasing square miles every year. As the current trend continues, in the not too distant future, the Northwest Passage will be open water year round! Further evidence lies in examining the extreme degree at which the world's glaciers are receding and in many, many cases have receded to extinction. You need look no further than the west coast of Canada and up into Alaska.

While the debate rages on as to who or what's responsible for the current global warming, the earth's atmosphere continues to warm up. Even if there was a miraculous verdict that everyone and all nations acknowledged, that being that mankind has played a major role, I'm willing to bet there would still be, sadly, great resistance to altering the current contributing factors from man.

94

All this political back and forth is great and all... but sometimes, you just gotta go surfing.

96

Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for illustrating how current group-think can't be trusted no matter how many scientists form a "consensus".

Actually that paper demonstrated that even in the 60s & 70s, when climate science was very young, only a minority saw the earth as cooling. More were on the warming side.

At that time they knew CO2 was rising in the atmosphere and that it increased greenhouse warming. However, their newly-developed temperature records did not show global warming. Hence the diversity of opinion. Since then, temperature records have shown warming, make the story is consistent.

When they prove (not come to a group-think "opinion") that man's actions are indeed causing "global warning", I will believe it. Until then, my mind is open.

What would constitute proof, Ruger? It's a pretty simple story. Put a blanket on, you get warmer. I guess the "blanket skeptics" would object, but most of us not be surprised.

  1. We know CO2 and other gases trap heat. You can prove this with soda bottles and heat lamps.

  2. We know CO2 is rising in the atmosphere. All measurements show it. You can probably get a handheld CO2 meter and start making measurements in your area. Rises in CO2 are are on scale with human's burning fossil fuels and loss of forests.

  3. We know the earth's surface is getting warmer. Glaciers are shrinking, atmospheric temperatures are rising, the oceans are getting warmer, seasons are changing, permafrost is melting, etc.

  4. We know from the past that the earth's climate changed for reasons not related to people. We know these changes were related to changes in the earth's orbit & tilt. (Glacial cycles have a regularity to them.) And we know there have been no such changes in the past 50 years, when pronounced warming has been seen.

What else can it be?

It's good to have an open mind, but it's also good to reach conclusions when warranted.

Have a good night.

97

Oh boy, I'm convinced, Dr. Sleepy has "proven" the theory no one has been able to yet prove. Whew.

"Have a good night."

98

All this political back and forth is great and all... but sometimes, you just gotta go surfing.

– Bonedaddy

Nice, any waves?

99

Nice, any waves?

– Curt Wilson

Yes, shoulder high today. It was 6 feet yesterday.

100

Replace "ginger ale" with "many available drugs" and "canada dry" with "Merck or Bayer", and you're getting somewhere.

Statins lower cholesterol, statins are safe, statins decrease mortality. Really? Says who? Merck. Oh. Well in that case, it MUST be true.

(pssst: it's not. Newest studies.)

But hey- again, no skin off my nose. Remain ignorant at your own risk. (and I don't mean that in a name-calling way: I mean it literally: unknowing.)

– ruger9

Talk about ignorant...it was this thing called an analogy. Didn't you get to those in high school?


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