Miscellaneous Rumbles

Vegas- Holy Hannah, hope everyone’s ok

1

Live shooter on the Vegas Strip at the Country Music Festival. Many injured, hopefully any GDP-ers on the scene are ok!

(0100PDT) Update- At about 2230 Sunday night, as Jason Aldeane was onstage at the Rt 91 Country Music Festival, someone opened fire on the crowd with an automatic weapon. Newsfeeds report the shooter(s) may have emptied three magazines on the crowd from a high ground vantage point.

Mass casualties. At least two killed on scene and more than 20 rushed to hospital.

Insane.... bloody insane.. Prayers and kind thoughts for the victims.

4

No words.

Warped hatred.

I saw a video clip from the concert and to hear the gun firing with such rapid succession it just took the wind out of me.

5

Over fifty dead, over 200 injured. What an incredibly senseless loss of life. This is truly an unbelievable tragedy.

6

It's senseless for any human to own an automatic assault weapon. I believe in our constitution but as we all know gun technology has changed. I'm not looking to start a thing but this is out of hand.

7

Curt, I know you ain't looking to start anything...but I gotta say from the perspective of someone who studies crime for a living. It's frustrating that the research, knowledge, and informed opinions of people who have spent a significant portion of their lives examining this problem are held in the same regard as someone screaming a slogan or a talking head on the news.

but it seems to me, people are all too willing to lay down someone else's life for their own ideology.

8

Absolutely heartbreaking! I’m afraid this will turn into a “gun” thing when it’s really a heart thing. The sad state of the human condition is that we’re all broken. If we took away all of the guns, then the folks that want to hurt someone else will resort to whatever they have access to, cars, knives, large rocks, etc.

As a father to young children I can’t help but wonder how we can further instill and cement the importance of another life into my kids. Praying for Las Vegas and everyone involved.

9

i know where this is now going to go. Fair enough, everyone is thoroughly and rightly disgusted.

Whatever ban there is is on weapons, the Bataclan theatre massacre in 2015 demonstrates that no matter how extensive the ban (as it's very extensive in France) that is no guarantee that murderers cannot get their hands on the weapons. And of course they are just doing it with with trucks and vans where they don't have guns. I therefore do find persuasive the argument that allowing the 99.99% of weapons owners to keep firearms is a way to keep these murderers potentially in check. I am convinced that someone at the scene of the massacre having had a gun in Orlando, Nice, Paris, etc would net/net been better than no one having them.

Here in the UK if someone wishes to own a shooting rifle, the police interview that person about every 5 years (I'm told) to approve and maintain the permit. I would fully support something like this in the USA, as there is a correlation between severe mental illness and violent behavior. I do feel somewhat confident that trained police could be a line of defence in this regard.

In my business of anti money laundering, it's not enough anymore to do the checks one time; the diligence has to be updated to correspond with an assessment of risk potential. I don't know a lot about weapons ownership, but someone who is on record of owning say dozens of firearms rather than e.g, a single gun would strike me as someone perhaps the police could talk to more regularly. The point is there are risk criteria if people are willing to be less dogmatic on both sides. Sadly, though, I could type right here right now what will be coming out of Chuck Schumer's mouth in the next few hours. Here we go again.

I am open to ideas. This is only what occurs to me as a way to strike some sort of balance.

10

Curt, I know you ain't looking to start anything...but I gotta say from the perspective of someone who studies crime for a living. It's frustrating that the research, knowledge, and informed opinions of people who have spent a significant portion of their lives examining this problem are held in the same regard as someone screaming a slogan or a talking head on the news.

but it seems to me, people are all too willing to lay down someone else's life for their own ideology.

– Buddy Mercury

I get it, there will always be some nutbag with a car, bomb or whatever their sick little mind can dream up. If he couldn't get an assault rifle he would have found another way to be a complete dick.

11

I get it, there will always be some nutbag with a car, bomb or whatever their sick little mind can dream up. If he couldn't get an assault rifle he would have found another way to be a complete dick.

– Curt Wilson

Yeah, but the "only lawful people follow the law" argument is fallacious.

it's just as easy to say "why should their be speed limits, people just break them anyway!"

Durkheim said that when society creates laws we are making a declaration of our values and we are using those laws and their commensurate punishments to reaffirm those values.

You're right, people will always find a way to be a complete dick. But more nuanced gun laws would send a message society-wide that we don't approve of such behavior.

Vigilance is the price of liberty.

12

Yes the bad guys will often (not always) find a way to get guns and find inventive ways to kill people. And no, having people there armed does not stop the killing. Surely there were armed people in Vegas? When do we ever hear of an armed good guy stopping a massacre?

The fact remains that since we outlawed assault rifles here in Australia not one mass shooting has occurred in the 20 years since. And sure, the loony in Vegas could have chucked rocks at the people below. But assault rifles are so much easier and available in the US.

I don't know why there are so many folks in the US who want to bury their heads in the sand, but the rest of the world has realised long ago that having loads of assault weapons in public hands is a tragedy waiting to happen. Vegas is a perfect example of why having access to these weapons is a bad, bad idea.

My heart goes out to those affected, and it will be thousands of people. ONE GUY with an army rifle did this. So sad, so senseless, and so avoidable. The people of the NRA have blood on their hands. Where were they when Vegas needed THEIR guns? It doesn't work.

13

My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. I also hope that this was just a single deranged man with no political agenda. Seems like these nutcases always get the order wrong. They should off themselves before trying to take out anyone else.

As far as the gun argument goes, I recently heard a prediction that within 5 years we will see a chemical / biological attack made against a packed outdoor stadium, using one or more drones to deliver the attack. Tens of thousands in terms of potential casualties. Evil always seems to find a way - guns or something else.

14

This is very sad and so is mental health. That is the issue, not guns, sorry. I agree that nobody should own/use fully automatic weapons. They are only good for killing. Regardless, it takes a person to wield it.

15

When will guns be the issue? Why should someone with mental health issues be able to do this? They couldn't do it here where I live. Keep burying your heads in the sand guys. If guns were the answer why didn't anyone shoot the bad guy before he killed so many people? Haven't you guys noticed that this is happening all the time in the US? It sometimes happens in another country, but how many times does it happen in the US? More than every other country in the world combined.

Enjoy your freedom folks.

16

Haven't you guys noticed that this is happening all the time in the US? -- JimmyR

Yes. It is very much noticed.

17

When will crazy/ extremists be the issue? My brother is schizophrenic, I know first hand how there is absolutely no help for the mentally ill.

In a period of two years 911 has been called on my brother at least 20 times because he is unstable, mentally unstable.
There is evil in this world and the evil needs to be dealt with. Are guns evil, are cars evil, are drones evil? No, evil lives in the twisted minds of men.
My brother states that he is possed by demons, yet he is free to walk around.

I can say with certainty that this shooter in Vegas was unstable and someone knew this.

18

It's senseless for any human to own an automatic assault weapon. I believe in our constitution but as we all know gun technology has changed. I'm not looking to start a thing but this is out of hand.

– Curt Wilson

This.

Any "but Paris!" or "But Breivik!" is bullshit. There is no other western nation where civilians shoot other civilians in the same numbers, with the same "efficiency", or with the same regularity as in the US. Not wanting to see the correlation between the numbers of civilians using guns on each other (or theirselves..) and the number of people owning guns is just weird, and getting weirder as these kinds of shootings are reaching new record numbers.

19

Unstable people can kill. But, without automatic weapons, they can't kill very many and, with the proximity to their intended victim, they risk losing their own lives when doing so.

Automatic weapons should be in the hands of the military alone. The public at large should never have these weapons.

Knavel, I like your idea about having someone come out to visit people who have licenses to determine their ongoing mental stability. However, the NRA would never stand for it. But, I do like the idea and I am heartened to see that you also think that there is merit to it.

20

Saying we should do more to help the mentally ill and that we should do everything possible to ensure that gun owners are well trained, safe and responsible are not mutually exclusive statements.

21

Maybe the NKA needs a more effective lobby.

22

Just curious, how are mental health issues handled in Europe?

24

Not laughing.

I do have trouble suppressing a sardonic sneer when assault/automatic weapons "rights" advocates tell me crazy people would just resort to knives if they couldn't get guns.

I say that sounds better. Show me the lone knifeman who can take out 50 people and injure 400.

25

The weapons arent the issue. A person who is dangourous can and will find a way. Ive been a victem of several violent crimes. Guess what? The criminals that got caught,had wrap sheets a mile long. Our system is not effective when a violent person hurts multiple people and gets out of jail worse than they went in. As the number of humans continue to grow at crazy rates, the problem grows right along with it. We can cry and pray and moan all we want. Defending your self will be a very nessasary skill in the future. Sad. My sympathy to the survivors and their familys.


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