It must be tough. I felt like playing some blues tonight so I went to a local bar that has an open mic night. They are usually packed. There were 4 people at the bar. Open mic night lasted about 1/2 an hour.

I have new respect for those of you that gig for a living. How has it been? Is it more difficult as of late?

Pennsylvania had a bar open on Sunday?

Gigs are so fewer yes. The economy is rough right now.

WELL here in the great white north its not so much the economy , its the f&$()ing smoking bylaws , bars and restaurant are basic , folks go there to eat ,them there gone , its great if your a non smoker , also the 0.8 alcohol laws are brutal on bars , one beer that fine ,two beers and your in the we tow your car ,you lose your licence ,no fooling around here , so amagine owening a bar , bands have fewer and fewer place to play ,guitars in music stores sit there ,with only the hobby players buying stuff .

I've been lucky to do this for a living for most of my life. i'm getting concerned however about the future of that lately.

I've never seen the economy impact bar gigs before,but it has.It's still possible to make a living gigging,but it's all roadwork.The only gigs to be had for the asking are the ones that don't pay,and you can do that here in Denver every night.

EDIT: I think Rejean is right about DUI enforcement and (to a lesser extent) smoking bans having impacted paid live gigs to the point that the few remaining paid gigs do respond negatively to economic downturns.Aggressive DUI enforcement with its concomitant transfer of entertainment dollars from musicians to law enforcement and the legal profession has been in place for so long that there are now few active players left who remember when playing music was a real job.

The "talent agents" make it harder for us. They're mini-mobsters. Hard to book around them at times.

It must be tough. If Paul is hurting at his scale, then things are likely even more volatile lower down. I'm not so sure about the impact of the smoker/drinking factors, though. They will have some impact, but if the audiences aren't there, they either can't come (no money to spend on this), or the attraction isn't strong enough for them to be bothered. If smoking and drinking was the main attraction at a gig, there may have been a lack of connection between the audience and music anyway. Unless the music is intended to be merely incidental ( so hire yourself a CD player).

I maybe way off base on this, but one thing just struck me.

With the smoking bans and stricter DUI laws, perhaps the demographics of the target audience is shifting, but the bars and clubs may have not adapted.

My wife and I go to as many or more shows as we ever did - but it's mostly bigger shows at medium-to-large venues.

I'd love to go to more club shows, but she doesn't want to go to a gig where the band doesn't come on until 11. Even on weekends, she wants to be home by midnight. I was always more of a night owl, but even I don't want to be out past 1 on a weeknight when I have to be up at 6am. I love when I go to London, knowing that the music will end at 1030 and I can get a decent night's sleep before work.

As an example, Reverend Peyton's Big Damn Band is playing NYC in a few weeks and I'm having a tough time finding someone who will go see them with me.

The good thing about the 40+ audience is that they have money he cash, even in this economy. Dropping $20 at the door or $7 for a beer is fine, at least in big markets. So while we may not drink as much, we're still willing to drop $60-80 for an evening of fun and music.

So, what if clubs catered more to this audience? Open your doors at 7 with the band coming on at 8. Raise your cover charge, as that's not as big a deal to me as it was when I was 15.

Not sure it that would work, but maybe. Has anyone seen this tested yet (and is it working at all?)

That makes all the sense in the world. Someone's got to try it. Look at the size of the 40+ demographic. We may have a earlier bedtime but we're not dead yet.

I'm selling my guitars and becoming a rapper, yo.

Barry, I think the earlier start makes sense.

A night out:
Dinner from 6:30 to 7:30, then directly off to the club for live music/dancing 'til you want to leave (band pulls the plug at 11:30 = 4 sets).

Works good for mid-week gigs, as even the musicians get home at a reasonable time for their day job

WELL here in the great white north its not so much the economy , its the f&$()ing smoking bylaws , bars and restaurant are basic , folks go there to eat ,them there gone , its great if your a non smoker , also the 0.8 alcohol laws are brutal on bars , one beer that fine ,two beers and your in the we tow your car ,you lose your licence ,no fooling around here , so amagine owening a bar , bands have fewer and fewer place to play ,guitars in music stores sit there ,with only the hobby players buying stuff .

Well spoken! The DUI laws are out of control, while I believe nobody should be driving while wrecked on booze or what have you there seems to be no common sense factor to those who enforce the strict DUI laws. Our local cops spend the majority of thier time on the main highways hoping to nail some poor working stiff for having a few beers after work while ignoring a good bit of local crime situations, in my opinion this is one of the main factors of the dwindling live bar band action. So big brother rakes in the revenue from the excessive tax's placed on alcohol big brother also picks your pockets clean if you partake in any alcohol drinking, double dipping for sure only the so called lawmakers and lawyers profit. Another factor that has not been mentioned is companys like BMI and ASCAP legally extorting bar owners for royalties, as much as $1200.00 to $2000.00 per year if they have live bands, the thought is if you have a live band that band is sure to play covers. And of course we are in a poor economy situation, everybody has to tighten thier belts except for the scumbag deep pocket politicians who are mainly responsible for our current economic pitfall.

I definitely started noticing it affecting my shows, I changed my approach and now every show is a "special event." I'm doing something to draw people out for that specific evening. Whereas it used to be the act of playing a show was enough to get fans out.

Problem is people won't buy into it every weekend, so now I'm in a situation where I gotta pick and choose when I play a show instead of just hittin the bar when I wanna play.

I'm selling my guitars and becoming a rapper, yo.

The economy sucks.

As the economy goes, there goes the gigs.

The anti-smoking/drinking thing is a major reason. The economy is another. Most people don't get into music because of the good money. You do it because you love it. Back when I started gigging in the early 60s, my Dad said if I wanted to make money at it, I should get into a polka band---a viable option in a town full of Polskis. I knew guys that put themselves thru college by playing Polish weddings. Free drinks and food, too.

To "make it big", it seemed that you had to sell your soul. You had to play Top 40 tunes, stuff people could dance to, the popular stuff---like Bieber is now---the stuff 14 year old girls like. It still seems that talent isn't what sells but whatever the "machine" is pushing. Why do you think the Beatles stopped touring? They couldn't hear themselves over the screaming girls. They stayed in the studio after '66.

I respect anyone that can maintain their integrity and still make a living at it. Often, true talent still can make it. I also feel that it hasn't been an easy trip for them as well.

I live in a large college town that has only one dance floor near campus---and that's mostly recorded. Their side bar has a piano player. Only a couple venues still feature live music anymore. The one club that had Jazz/Blues now does occasional metal headbanger stuff. The other bars near campus have open mic nights. Juke boxes seem to be the standard entertainment anymore.

How are music stores doing? How are instrument companies doing? How's the recording business these days? I stopped going to concerts because ticket brokers got most of the seats before I could get there. (If I can only buy 6 tickets, how do brokers manage to get hundreds and thousands of seats in blocks?) Then, they charge ten times more for them---plus handling fees.

In the '70s, tickets for top gigs were $4. Now, they're $50 and up, often over $100. Even at that, the venues don't make all that much money. After the band gets their share, the promoter gets his cut. Production costs are astronomical. The serious money is made in T-shirts and concessions. On their last tour, Brooks and Dunn had two semis full of gear, and two full of shirts and such.

Musicians and artists have always starved. You do it because you love the music.

I think Barry may be on to something there. My wife and I have an 8 year old son but we get a baby sitter a few times a month to go out. We like to go hear bands, but they start playing at 10:00 and we try to be home by 11:00 (leave the house at 6:00 for dinner). When I worked sound for a local coffee house, the artist would start at 7:00 and the show was over by 10 or 10:30. We had a full house of all ages (100 people). I have a friend that plays paying gigs almost every weekend but he has spent years of playing for free to get where he is today and can't give up his day job.

50 years ago, a band with guitars playing rock and roll was a mainstream interest for teens... Now things are different...As we all know, things are diversified...All kinds of music...And the attraction / focus might not be the music at all.

Around Milwaukee many of the clubs have closed. It is tougher to find a gig in this town for sure. Most of the places I used to play are gone and so are all of those inroads.

In fact I was at Summerfest a few weeks ago at close on a Saturday night and in the past there were always throngs of drunk people staggering around and acting out. This year, nothing. Not one person I saw was noticeably drunk. I realized that at $6.00 per beer in this recession, nobody can afford to get drunk there anymore.

My guitar lessons are slow too. Music is a luxury and in times of trouble the luxuries are the first to go.

Jeff O said "as the economy goes,there goes the gigs." He's right,of course,but paid live music used to be recession-proof.If anything,business would get better in bad economic times,because every little neighborhood bar had cover bands a minimum of 3 nights a week.No cover,no merch,no house soundman,no house deejay.The venues made their money off the drinks,and people wanted to party.

NJbob's comment about earlier starts enabling musicians to "get home at a reasonable time for their day job" shows me how much of a paradigm shift there's been.As late as 1983,that statement would have drawn the response "What day job?",because many if not most players working midweek had no need and less desire to "get up in the morning to the 'larm clock's warning [and] take the 8:15 into the city". It's now correctly assumed you will need a day job just as much as if your hobby were trout fishing or golf,instead of music.

In addition to DUI enforcement scaring people out of the bars,the AIDS epidemic was the other half of the double whammy.It's a little indelicate to talk about but do bear with me-In this time frame,pop culture was still resonating to the make-love-not-war meme,and promiscuity was the order of the day.If you had a band that the girls liked,the boys and their wallets would follow,because they (and the band!!) had a good to excellent chance of post-gig companionship.That all came to a screeching halt once it became clear that a casual hookup could cost you your life.In connection with it being clear that casual drinks could cost you your freedom,the neighborhood bar went from a pleasant haven to a trap.Wise folks and their money stayed away,and rooms either went dark or went karaoke-or went original.Whatever cost the least.

I was there. Some who weren't might disagree,but there are people who deny global warming,too.

I live in the subarbs now on Long Island and definitely see the impact you are talking about. 3 bars that once had thriving, even packed open mic nights have abandoned it because of dwindling response to the event. DUI is crazy here.....over the top and people are scared. Cops are pulling people over saying they were doing 85+ mph and by pace and not radar...don't even ask if they've been drinking but telling them to step out of the car for all the tests. It's killing happy hour too.

Some venues are surviving if not thriving more so now than ever like Mulcahy's in Wantagh or a few biker bars I know of. They always have great bands.

Of course bad economy or not, you can't even tell in New York City. Sure some clubs have closed like TRAMPS or Lonestar Roadhouse but that happens. Smaller venues like the Red Lion on Blleker St. is a good example of the gigging musician always getting a gig. It's pretty cool in NYC and seemingly untouched.

How are music stores doing? How are instrument companies doing? How's the recording business these days?

I manage one of 2 locations of a local music store (instruments, not records) and can say that the last year or so has been a little tight. Last Christmas was a big sign for how things were going. Instead of buying guitars and drum kits, people were buying sticks and strings.

Talking to our distributors, it's the same across the board. Everyone in the business is hurting this year. It's starting to pick up though, and I'm seeing a lot more optimism among the window shoppers. Meaning instead of saying I wish I could afford that, it's I'll be back in a month or so when I save the cash. It's small, but it's a shift in the right direction.

I know a few record stores that have similar experience, as well as studios. The recording stuff I attribute more to people buying recording rigs and thinking they can get the same sound, but that's a different rant.

There have been some great points mentioned here. I’d like to chime in on my experience. I am not a full time musician, but do gig anywhere from 1 to 5 shows a month in both acoustic style one to two man group and all electric four man rock cover band. In the Chicago suburbs, the smoking ban really turned a lot of bars that served food into restaurants that serve liquor. I see little kids at my shows as late as 11:00 with their parents. You never saw that with the smoke.

Five six years ago, I would start at 9:00 on a Wednesday to a full bar. Now, I’m lucky to catch some leftover dinner crowd if I start around 7:30. In the bars, it’s all about moving the booze. I have to start playing earlier to keep people buying the booze/sandwiches. However, the bar owners are torn: They can’t afford live acts as much as the used to, but at the same time, they need some sort of entertainment to keep drawing people in. Some owners are starting to give me a choice of a flat fee or a percentage of the bar ring after a certain time.

An opposing point of view . . .

My wife & I also enjoy going to live music shows. But it tends to be at nice venues that also serve decent food, & not at neighborhood bars.

Frankly, I don't want to be around a bunch of drunks, either in the club or while driving home. One or two drinks is enough for me in an evening. Too much alcohol & I won't even appreciate the musician(s) that I paid $30 to $80 to see & hear.

So, in my opinion, it is primarily a generational kind of thing. Most young people I know (say, in their 20's - old enough to go out to clubs), don't think they should pay for music, live or otherwise. So they stay home & listen to pirated music on their MP3 players.

Some people in my generation (I'm in my 50's) may have the cash to attend live music shows, but choose to do it only at clean places & reasonable hours. Like some others said above, we would not likely attend a show that started late. The venue we attend most often has a bar area that opens at 6pm, dinner is served until 8pm, and the show starts promptly at 8. We're usually on the road home before 10:30.

We also attend live shows much more often, now that smoking is prohibited in public spaces in our area. So, from my viewpoint, smoking bans have actually resulted in us attending more live music shows nowadays than we did 20 years ago.