Miscellaneous Rumbles

CITES Sucks Part 2

1

https://www.douane-inzicht....

Agreed w/ interested party that it's too risky to send that T Bird bass over to Netherlands. Also cost for forms and inspection is $200 over ther.

if anyone can read German here's some info -- but the pix shows what goes down on the guitar confiscation scene.

2

https://www.douane-inzicht....

Agreed w/ interested party that it's too risky to send that T Bird bass over to Netherlands. Also cost for forms and inspection is $200 over ther.

if anyone can read German here's some info -- but the pix shows what goes down on the guitar confiscation scene.

– DCBirdMan

That indeed sucks big time!

And by the way, the text is in Dutch, not German.

Edit: insert wink smiley

3

I stand corrected on the language, but the pix says it all

4

[Google traduction] "This classic electric guitar from 1967 was recently found in the luggage of a passenger at Schiphol - a trader who could not show an instrument passport or license. Customs at the airport - the duty inspector and the local flora and fauna-information stake - suspected that rosewood had been incorporated into the object. In such cases, the colleagues come directly from the airport to us, and we immediately carry out an investigation. We do this with great care, because if nothing turns out to be wrong, the item in question must of course be returned to the owner without scratches or dents. This time a look through the microscope quickly showed that there was indeed wrong wood in the game. The instrument has been confiscated, and an official report has been drawn up against the traveler. "

I've contacted my local CITES agency, here in France, and, as long as you can prove the origin of the instrument (previous certificate, invoice of purchase before 1992 for "pre-Cites" examples), getting an re-export certificate is quite straightforward. But it's true that all these Cites stuff is becoming a real pain in the **s, blocking most international trades (while domestic are still allowed....)

5

There was a piece on NPR this morning about CITES ( it's not linked in their site) with interviews/info from Martin and Taylor. The big deal is over rosewood that is scarce being used up by Chinese furniture makers. There was general agreement that the inconsistent rules had to be revisited but that a general meeting over this wouldn't happen until 2019.

EDIT: Found the link; well worth listening to.

6

It totally f'in sucks big time. My days of "hey, maybe I can get this shipped here, price seems right!" seem to be over for good.

8

The trickiest parts are that permits are required for both the exporting and importing nation and these standards and processes as not consistent. It’s hard enough figuring out your own country’s rules let alone another’s.

9

It totally f'in sucks big time. My days of "hey, maybe I can get this shipped here, price seems right!" seem to be over for good.

– WB

So true Walter! We're now left only with guitars made with out of regulation woods, i.e. Telecasters & Strats (ash body/maple necks), and "59" Gretsches (maple body/ebony fingerboard)

10

I was thinking of traveling with a 6120 to the Netherlands - It's a good thing I did not! (I think the bridge base I have on there is rosewood).

11

So true Walter! We're now left only with guitars made with out of regulation woods, i.e. Telecasters & Strats (ash body/maple necks), and "59" Gretsches (maple body/ebony fingerboard)

– Hepkat67

Yep. I'm actually looking at an old Hagstrom Jimmy right now, being sold inside the EU. I guess it means vintage guitars are about to get even more expensive in Europe, as long as there's a demand.

12

According to NPR today, orchestras/musicians are now allowed to travel across borders without problems. I'm assuming this applies to anyone travelling with an instrument?

13

@Walter: Hagstrom Jimmy ? you ol' psychobilly !!!! ah ah ah

14

Because of the recent CITES "epidemic" I am surprised that a great more Les Pauls on ebay are coming out of Japan........exponentially more than even a year ago. It's always been that way for the MIJ guitars, but for Gibsons?

I've seen fewer posts on ebay here in the US so I'm thinking there has been an increase in reverb.com usage. I never really looked at the site before a few months ago so I can't confirm and only guess.

15

I don't know if this has been mentioned but apparently if you buy an instrument somewhere else personally and want to physically bring it across the border yourself NO CITES documents are needed, especially as most guitars will have less than 10kg of rosewood. Here's what CITES Canada told me about bringing a guitar I purchased across the border at Blaine Washington Importing into Canada from the US

Good morning,

There would be no CITES permits required, if you physically picked up the guitar (which you purchased and is now your personal property) from the US side and brought it to Canada. There is less than 10kg of rosewood in that guitar and you are taking it across the border for non-commercial reasons. With those conditions you fall outside the scope of CITES permitting. Your only fees will be the ones that Canada border services would make you pay for bringing something into Canada (e.g. taxes, duties, whatever else they require).

Cheers,

18

I don't know if this has been mentioned but apparently if you buy an instrument somewhere else personally and want to physically bring it across the border yourself NO CITES documents are needed, especially as most guitars will have less than 10kg of rosewood. Here's what CITES Canada told me about bringing a guitar I purchased across the border at Blaine Washington Importing into Canada from the US

Good morning,

There would be no CITES permits required, if you physically picked up the guitar (which you purchased and is now your personal property) from the US side and brought it to Canada. There is less than 10kg of rosewood in that guitar and you are taking it across the border for non-commercial reasons. With those conditions you fall outside the scope of CITES permitting. Your only fees will be the ones that Canada border services would make you pay for bringing something into Canada (e.g. taxes, duties, whatever else they require).

Cheers,

– Toxophilite

My research and experience was the same hand carrying a guitar from the US into Canada. A few things to note, though. Guitars are subject to the exporting rules of the exporter and the importing rules of the importer. There are different rules for Appendix I materials which include Brazilian rosewood. I was buying an Indian rosewood guitar, but a lot of them had a Brazilian rosewood veneer on the headstock. If a border guard had gotten curious and demanded documentation, a guitar like that would have required an export permit from the US ($75 and 3 month wait) and an import permit to Canada (free and 1-2 month wait).

There is huge variance with border guards because they can’t be expected to know the minutiae if every policy. This is why it’s best to have documentation of the instrument and the relevant policies. In the case of buying a Collings acoustic, they asked no questions at all, just wanted the taxes. A few months later when I brought a $120 squier Jazzmaster across, they asked tons of questions.

Going back to the original post, even if you flew the guitar across the pond yourself, Holland may have different rules than Canada.


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