Pickups

using an EQ pedal to make a Filter sound like a Dyna

1

Probably not really possible but just curious really...has anyone ever tried using an eq pedal to making a Filtertron sound more like a Dynasonic?

Any idea what frequencies you want to be goosing to achieve this?

2

I don't see why not? I just saw a rig rundown with Nashville session ace Tom Bukovac where he used a Boss EQ pedal to make a Gibson neck PAF sound like a Filtertron... maybe not EXACTLY, but...

3

I don't see why not? I just saw a rig rundown with Nashville session ace Tom Bukovac where he used a Boss EQ pedal to make a Gibson neck PAF sound like a Filtertron... maybe not EXACTLY, but...

– ruger9

yeah I saw that one too...he made such good use of that eq pedal!

5

As long as the right Dyna waves are present in the FTron signal, the others could be muted, but if they’re not there originally I can’t see how it could work.

6

Waaaay more complex than you can do with the typical guitar EQ pedal. Source Audio's new EQ2 - with 10 fully parametric bands (accessible via their Neuro editor/app) - might take a shot at it. But I'm not sure 10 bands would be enough to make all the necessary transformations - assuming you had the ear for it. With the assistance of spectrum analysis software, you might make some progress.

I spent a couple hours with 10 bands of fixed EQ last week trying to get the same tonal signature from a cloned fuzz pedal that I get from the original for the clone - and no dice. That's with sources already nearly the same.

Sophisticated modeling software can make a semi-credible acoustic guitar sound from an electric guitar input (disclaimer: about as good as a piezo-amplified acoustic guitar, which is not at all the same thing as a properly mic'ed or naked acoustic, but the world seems to go for it). Many modeling packages include algos to make 'buckers sound like single-coils, and vice-versa, and they do get into the ballpark; as you might say, close enough for a rock & roll gig.

So yeah, it's theoretically possible, and clearly it's done with EQ. Just not EQ as most us know it in guitar applications.

Or, as the immortal sign in my buddy Ray's office at the Emporia Gazette said: In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. However, there is in practice.

At the end of the day - and a very long day - you'd have something Dyna-like. I'd rather have a Dyna.

7

Waaaay more complex than you can do with the typical guitar EQ pedal. Source Audio's new EQ2 - with 10 fully parametric bands (accessible via their Neuro editor/app) - might take a shot at it. But I'm not sure 10 bands would be enough to make all the necessary transformations - assuming you had the ear for it. With the assistance of spectrum analysis software, you might make some progress.

I spent a couple hours with 10 bands of fixed EQ last week trying to get the same tonal signature from a cloned fuzz pedal that I get from the original for the clone - and no dice. That's with sources already nearly the same.

Sophisticated modeling software can make a semi-credible acoustic guitar sound from an electric guitar input (disclaimer: about as good as a piezo-amplified acoustic guitar, which is not at all the same thing as a properly mic'ed or naked acoustic, but the world seems to go for it). Many modeling packages include algos to make 'buckers sound like single-coils, and vice-versa, and they do get into the ballpark; as you might say, close enough for a rock & roll gig.

So yeah, it's theoretically possible, and clearly it's done with EQ. Just not EQ as most us know it in guitar applications.

Or, as the immortal sign in my buddy Ray's office at the Emporia Gazette said: In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. However, there is in practice.

At the end of the day - and a very long day - you'd have something Dyna-like. I'd rather have a Dyna.

– Proteus

I had a feeling it would be harder than I thought. Many thanks for the input. I would still need to actually buy an eq pedal to try to achieve this. It was to save me doing something I might regret by swapping a Filter for a Dyna.

Gonna either give it some more thought or try to put it from my mind

8

I don't see why not? I just saw a rig rundown with Nashville session ace Tom Bukovac where he used a Boss EQ pedal to make a Gibson neck PAF sound like a Filtertron... maybe not EXACTLY, but...

– ruger9

Hi Ruger9, Was it a boss pq4 or a graphic eq?

i recently saw a demo with the empress paraeq that really made me want one.

Itching for a parametric at mo

9

Hi Ruger9, Was it a boss pq4 or a graphic eq?

i recently saw a demo with the empress paraeq that really made me want one.

Itching for a parametric at mo

– eCastro

Regular old GE-7

10

Hi Ruger9, Was it a boss pq4 or a graphic eq?

i recently saw a demo with the empress paraeq that really made me want one.

Itching for a parametric at mo

– eCastro

I think it was just a boss GE-7 if I remember right

11

two coils in series (=humbucking pickup, whether Gretsch or Gibson or whatever) cancel out certain frequencies. EQ can cut or boost frequencies, but it can't make something appear that isn't there - that would require digital modeling, "sound replacement".

12

two coils in series (=humbucking pickup, whether Gretsch or Gibson or whatever) cancel out certain frequencies. EQ can cut or boost frequencies, but it can't make something appear that isn't there - that would require digital modeling, "sound replacement".

– WB

oh IDK... I remember years ago, I saw a guy get EVH's early brown sound using a tweed Bassman comb0, a strat, and a GE-7. It might not have been exact, but it was very close.

We have to keep in mind, sitting at home we pay very close attention to nuances that would never be heard in a live situation. I dare say we obsess over such things. When in reality, if we were blindfolded and tested (for example, an EQ'd Dyna vs a Filter), I think many would be very surprised how difficult it may be to tell the difference in these things. I know you'll disagree with me, WB... we usually do lol.

That being said, I've been down this "close enough" road many many times over the years, and I don't chase it anymore.... not because it isn't doable; but because I'm a lot simpler than I used to be about gear... it may seem like simple common sense, but, if you want to hear what a Dyna sounds like in a guitar, put a Dyna in the guitar. :)

13

An EQ pedal alone won't do it... What you need is the "Paul Williams EQ pedal". Take a cue from "Swan" (at 0:40 in)... anything's possible.

14

oh IDK... I remember years ago, I saw a guy get EVH's early brown sound using a tweed Bassman comb0, a strat, and a GE-7. It might not have been exact, but it was very close.

I'll gladly believe that : it's the opposite of trying to make a humbucker sound like a single coil. With a single coil pickup, most of the frequencies you'd be after are there - all you really need to do is emphasize them and supress some others. It's more of a blank canvas.

Humbuckers cancel certain frequencies out between the two coils, and you can't magically make something that's not there appear.

And yes, with creative EQ you can get close-ish, especially from a listener standpoint. But the playing experience will be different because single coils have a more immediate attack than humbuckers. I've played quite a few Reverend guitars, and their "bass contour" control rolls off low end and low mid, and you can fake a "sort of" single coil with it surprisingly well, seeing that it's basically a pot, a resistor and a cap, all passive.

That said, I've played one of their guitars with their version of a Filtertron on it, and the bass countour knob is far less effective than on the more familiar/generic buckers/P90's. Filtertrons and Dynasonics are pretty specific sounding pickups.

15

Besides the dual coils the construction between the two pickups are different. With the pickup slugs being the magnet in a Dynasonic you will get that sharp attack that you hear on Fender style guitars. With a Filtertron you get a smoother, more rounded attack because the magnets are under the pickup screws. Getting a HiLotron sound from a Filtertron would be an easier endeavor to undertake since they are constructed similarly.

17

It's not an EQ difference....it's a phasing difference because Humbuckers have two sets of polepieces. dynas have a seperate magnet for each string, so the magnetic field is extremely tight and focused.

18

This may not be to everyone’s liking but I went with plan B.

To be honest I couldn’t be happier. This guitar sounds so much better to me now...just wasn’t getting on at all with the Filter..,tried adjusting height and couldn't get it to sound right. It was super woofy in the bass with little definition and really bright on the top strings. I just love Dynas.

19

And that's the right answer.

20

This may not be to everyone’s liking but I went with plan B.

To be honest I couldn’t be happier. This guitar sounds so much better to me now...just wasn’t getting on at all with the Filter..,tried adjusting height and couldn't get it to sound right. It was super woofy in the bass with little definition and really bright on the top strings. I just love Dynas.

– tabletop

How is the mud switch with Dynas?

21

How is the mud switch with Dynas?

– NJBob

I thought it would be a little more usable but alas it’s still just two flavours of muffle with the original caps!

I never used it before so I’m not going to change it.

Full disclosure...I tried this pickup experiment first with a reissue 6119-59...I don't know the cap values on the reissues but I found that one of the positions on the mud switch was actually quite usable with the dyna.

23

I thought it would be a little more usable but alas it’s still just two flavours of muffle with the original caps!

I never used it before so I’m not going to change it.

Full disclosure...I tried this pickup experiment first with a reissue 6119-59...I don't know the cap values on the reissues but I found that one of the positions on the mud switch was actually quite usable with the dyna.

– tabletop

I do wonder what the RI cap values are...

I can testify, from having several types of Filter in my Cab, then TAs, the TAs are darker overall (which I like). They twang more... but are warmer pickups.... no ice-pick, thicker sounding plain strings, more muscle. So it wouldn't surprise me if the mud switch didn't work as well (I have modern cap values in my mud switch/Gretsch, with Setzer Classics, and they work quite well together)


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