this is to narrow down another thread.
so, i studied the gretsch wiring diagrams and also some comments at the other thread (gibson-type wiring vs. gretsch).
please share your perception of the gretsch master volume control and what advantages it gives you and how you use it (in comparison with a les paul control layout).
thanks!
Well I'll give you a pared down version of what I already said, just for continuity's sake.
The master volume lets you blend the neck and bridge pickup to whatever levels/mix you want, without sacrificing any overall volume. So (for a trebly sound with some bass) you can have the neck pickup on about 25% with the bridge pickup on 100%, and the master at 100%.
Then you want slightly more bass and less treble, so you turn the neck up to 100% and the bridge to 70% with the master at 100%, and you have a completely different sound at the exact same volume.
You simply can't do that on a Les Paul. Any combination of volumes results in a lower overall volume.
The biggest advantage for me is that I can fade out the guitar with both pickups selected.
That's a great point too. Think of the volume swells Setzer does all the time (most notably on 'Sleepwalk'). That wouldn't be possible on a Gibson/Fender.
Go to about 4:43 in this video to see what I'm talking about:
All three volumes at 10 = 30! Thrice as loud! 
Seriously, in addition to what has been said already, the only other advantage I can think of is enabling volume swells with both pickups engaged. Sort of the corollary to what Ratrod said.
ok, i can dig the volume swells on pickup mix and mix fadeout, but i totally don't get bigal's comment. if your master is on 100% it does nothing according to wiring diagram. how do you not loose volume by turning down individual pups? I simply don't see how that's possible, except if gretsch pots are tapered differently than gisbon, which then isn't a master volume issue.
If you turn down both pickups, you will lose volume. If you only turn down one, then your volume will stay.
Saying it another way - with master on 100% your volume is as loud as your loudest pickup.
But, I really don't understand how it works.
GearJunky...you say "gibson-type wiring vs. gretsch". However, over the years there have been different wiring schemes by both manufacturers. The modern Gibson wiring is such that turning off the volume on one pick-up affects both. This isn’t the case on vintage Gibson or most Gretsch wiring where you can completely turn one pickup off without affecting the other. In the Gretsch master volume wiring, you set the individual pickup volumes to get the balance you want and control the overall volume with the master.
"The modern Gibson wiring is such that turning off the volume on one pick-up affects both. "
I think electromatics are wired same way as gibson´s (at least my 5120 is).
My 5120 was wired that way. -something I remedied when I installed new pickups.
But as far as master volume goes:
-being able to control the volume with one knob when in the middle position
-Always have just one (the same) knob for volume regardless of pickup
-volume swells
I can't think of a single advantage to NOT having a Master Volume.
Thing I liked about a Master Volume when I still had a Gretsch is that it's a handy "kill" knob in between songs, to keep a big hollowbody from feeding back.
No fiddling or panicky "searching", just reach for that knob on the cutaway and turn it down.
It's easier to use than two volume knobs when both pickups are selected.
BrianBlaut: said: I can't think of a single advantage to NOT having a Master Volume.The disadvatnage is having another resister in the signal path. Even when turned all the way up, the master volume does have a (slightly) negative effect on overall volume and tone.
lol Tell that to Setzer! I get your point, and that fact is somewhat inarguable, but I don't think it affects tone/volume enough to affect the total sound if you're a good musician.
"...if you're a good musician..."
that's where i come in (or don't come in) 
well, i think i'm leaning towards adding the MV, I can always disconnect it and keep it for looks.
Good choice! If you don't already have the parts, I suggest buying a wiring harness from TV Jones. It'll cost about $40 more than parts alone (assuming parts run you $50 and his rig is ~$90), but it's professional work with great components, and it's really orderly. No stray wires, at all.
I find the Gretsch master volume so useful that I wish my other guitars had one! It's not just about what it does, it's the placement of the knob that I find especially convenient, it's right in my line of sight and for some reason easier to access than one out of four at the bottom of the body. Also, no matter how my pickups are setup, I know that I can play with the master volume at about 80%, and then (to quote Nigel Tufnel) when I need that extra push over the cliff...this one goes to eleven. You also get that bit of extra treble too at full throttle, or perhaps that's just perception, but in any case I compensate by setting my amp eq based on the master 80-90% volume setting. For swells I prefer a volume pedal..
I hate not having a master volume. It is such a pain to have to turn down two volumes if you want to kill your sound, and then re-blend them every time you turn back up. I rewired my dearmond m75-t to have a master volume. I sacrificed individual tone controls but to me it was worth it.
al sez: The master volume lets you blend the neck and bridge pickup to whatever levels/mix you want, without sacrificing any overall volume. So (for a trebly sound with some bass) you can have the neck pickup on about 25% with the bridge pickup on 100%, and the master at 100%.Then you want slightly more bass and less treble, so you turn the neck up to 100% and the bridge to 70% with the master at 100%, and you have a completely different sound at the exact same volume.
Well yeah, theoretically. There are some great blends in there, but if you turn one pup vol knob down to 25% with both pickups on and I defy you to tell me you can even HEAR that pup.
al goes on: You simply can't do that on a Les Paul. Any combination of volumes results in a lower overall volume.
That hasn't been my experience with a Pauline wiring scheme. I find them very easily blendable, with much greater control than Gretsch gives me, and as long as I leave ONE all the way up, I don't lose overall volume.
Turn them BOTH down, and, yes, you turn the guitar down. But turn down one, or turn it OFF, and the impression of volume remains the same. Be more radical than that...switch from bridge position to both-on on ANY guitar, and I submit the perceived volume changes so little as to be irrelevant. (Unless the pickups are wired in series rather than parallel, which is unusual.)
Now, if you take the time on a Gretsch to minutely adjust one pickup's volume through the tiny effective arc the pot's travel, you CAN get a different blend. Then turning down the master volume does retain that blend, AND make the guitar quieter.
That's fine with me. I LIKE the master volume, and like Walter find it handy as a kill switch. (I'm 100 times more likely to use that than the actual silly kill switch that comes on some 6122s). And, as I mentioned in the other thread, the MV is excellent at rolling off a touch of high end without much affecting volume.
rastro has also perfectly explained how the master volume can be used to provide dynamics. I don't see it as being at all useful for volume swells...it could hardly be in a worse place for that trick.
Proteus: said: That hasn't been my experience with a Pauline wiring scheme. I find them very easily blendable, with much greater control than Gretsch gives me, and as long as I leave ONE all the way up, I don't lose overall volume.If that's the case, your LP has may have vintage wiring. Modern LP wiring with one voulume all the way off kills both pickups regardless of where the other is set (even if all the way up).
Nono, I'm aware that if I turn one pickup all the way down, I lose the other. It's the point I made in the other Gretsch-vs-LP wiring thread.
My point here is that, as long as you're turning one pickup just PART of the way down, while the other is full UP (as I do when blending the pickups for tone), there's little if any difference in the perceived volume of the guitar.
I should add that if I wanted to turn down the whole Gibson, with one pickup full up and the other already partly down, I would indeed have to work both volume knobs to accomplish it.
On the Gretsch, once you get the pickup balance established, it's handy to turn the whole blend down with the master.
Pro is a traitor fellas. Proof=pudding!
if you turn one pup vol knob down to 25% with both pickups on and I defy you to tell me you can even HEAR it.
well, maybe not at 25%...but when i recently tried out one of the Epiphone Switchmaster-style archtops with the 3xP90 setup, i was loving the sound i got with the neck and middle PUs full on and the bridge PU at about 30-35%. it didn't stand out so much as add a little piquant zing to the tone.
I disconnected both pickup volumes on my 'Club so it's only MV and a tonestyler tonecontrol. I dialled in my both-pickups-on setting by adjusting the pickup heights and poles. I like the MV control because: - It's not somewhere under my Bigsby arm - Rolling it off slightly dulles the tone which I actually like, I wouldn't fit a treble bleed cap myself although I can see why others like it - The on/off-switch thing Walter Broes and Proteus already mentioned.
