Pickups

DeArmond 2000 from the horse’s mouth

1

There have been lots of discussions about the DeArmond 2000 pickups that were used in the 512X and Historic lines and by now everyone should be straight on the differences between the 2000 and the 2K etc., but I found this text from a post by Bill Turner who worked on the design at Fender. As I understand it, Bill is no longer with us and I couldn't find the original post, hence the quote here; hope that is OK.

"Here's the story. The De Armond 2K and 2000 are wholly different animals. The 2K is configured like a P-90. Marketing wanted to create a jazz style pickup for the DeArmond guitars, and wanted to use the 2000 format. Personally, I would have liked to seen us release a RI 2000 to the market on a MIA guitar initially. This would have avoided some of the confusion that now exists between the models.

The De Armond guitar line took priority, and that meant that the 2K was developed first. There were no plans from marketing at the time to further develop the 2000.

As the 2k model began to come together, I and a good friend in R&D went ahead and designed parts for the 2000, and added these to the final set of drawings. Although there were no plans to use the parts that were designed for the 2000, they would be there when the time came.

The opportunity came last year when Gretsch approached Fender about using the 2K on thier guitars. Gretsch assumed that the pickup we were making for De Armond was a 2000 type model, and yes, it looks like one, but we knew that the 2K would not compliment the original Gretsch sound. This gave us the chance to push for the production of the 2000 and deliver it to Gretsch in the original 2000 config. The distiguishing feature for the Gretsch`s is that the 2000 does not sport the De Armond logo.

As we began to produce the 2000, interest grew to include the Guild Custom Shop, The Fender Custom Shop, and Guild guitars. So far, the exposure for the 2000 has been limited, but we are trying to expand it`s role on the guitar.

As I said, the 2K is configured like a P-90. The pole pieces and pole adjust screws are steel. The poles extend through the bobbin where they are trapped between a pair of like pole Alnico 5 bar magnets. The bobbin is surrounded by a thin steel U channel from below the bobbin to enhance the pickups inductance.

DC resistance: 7.4K Inductance: 6 Henries 43 gage magnet wire

The sound is like a P-90, in that it is a very fat single coil, but not quite as heavy as a P-90.

The 2000 uses only 1/4 inch Alnico 5 pole pieces in the bobbin, the sound is bright with that great rockabilly snap.

DC resistance: 8.85K Inductance: 3.55 Henries 44 gage magnet wire

Hope this does it.

Bill Turner"

2

yes classic post

the late great bill turner was a pickup wizard..he and his brother were the founders of the highly innovative emg pickups...later a top pickup guru (& beyond!) @ fmic...i had the good fortune of meeting him very early on..good man..rip

cheers

ps- i'm big fan of p90-ish 2k's..and there are those here who love the 2000's

3

Thanks for that post because the design and demand of the two let with questions that now I have the answer to....Thanks!!! I really like the 2000s for I use them for in my 5126 but also like everything P90 so am of intrigued about trying the 2ks.

4

yes classic post

the late great bill turner was a pickup wizard..he and his brother were the founders of the highly innovative emg pickups...later a top pickup guru (& beyond!) @ fmic...i had the good fortune of meeting him very early on..good man..rip

cheers

ps- i'm big fan of p90-ish 2k's..and there are those here who love the 2000's

– neatone

what kind of pickups are in the 3140 ? i can't remember

5

what kind of pickups are in the 3140 ? i can't remember

– DIDIER D

DA 2000s. No 2Ks on any stock Gretsch.

6

Got 2k's on my Dearmond Starfire Special. I really like 'em, especially for Travis picking. The thick bass end really thumps through. Much like a hot P90. Very underrated, IMO.

7

When it came time to mod my '06 Pro Jet, I was planning to put 2000s in but they are hard to find and I was low on funds, so I nabbed a pair of 2Ks cheap from a GDP member. The were OK but sounded like P90s, not very Gretschy. After a few months, I found another GDP member selling a set of 2000s cheap. I got a Paul Setzer to make me a pick guard and I slapped a Duanne arm on the bigsby. It sounds great and looks like a Duo Jet (albeit a sort of Hot Rodded one).

8

I bought a pair of 2000s from a GDP member...one of the best tone investments I ever made. I swear my 5120 sounds just like the Electro II.

9

I have 2ks on my75t. Sometimes they are all I ever wanted. Sometimes they are very finicky. Pole height matters a lot.

Then again... finicky chicks are hot,

K

10

A few years ago, I read that several people combined a 2000 neck with a 2K bridge. The 2K bridge was a little nastier (in a good way) than the 2000 and the 2000 neck was smoother than the 2K.

Trying to get the best of both worlds.

11

I had 2000s on a 3150 Historic Series Cats eyed Gretsch. The were very fat but bright and twangy sounding. A little thin for overdrive. Neck was way nicer than the bridge Pickup.

Now I have 2ks in a 5220 Jet. They sound almost similar to the 2000s. 2ks are more fat and more useful at the bridge Position. Neck Pickup is still great but the combination of Bridge 2k and Neck 2000 sounds good. Maybe the best of both worlds

2ks are very picky about pole piece adjustments. I like them sitting close to the strings. And pole pieces screwed almost flush to the pickup body.

Also discovered that the "Dynasonic Flip" works well too with 2ks

12

2K's are what happens when the sales dept designs pickups. It was a nice theory, but you can't do a P90 winding on a DeArmond bobbin, because the entire center of the bobbin is hollow to make room for the pickup slugs and the adjusting studs. A P90 is almost solid wire. The 2K's just sound like a weak pickup that's too far from the strings, and the fake magnet slugs look silly.

13

Got this pair of reissue 2000s sitting on a shelf...

15

I tried out a pair in my Duo Jet. They were OK, similar DNA to a Dyna but a bit underpowered, especially the bridge. Nice, if you like that kind of thing. I ended up putting the TArmonds back in, and cured the excessive mids with a 1meg mv pot, which evened things up well.

16

Billy,

Interesting--the fake metal pole pieces--so here is a question:

I love and hate the 2ks. Sometimes I get such a great tone out of them that my M75T becomes my favorite guitar. You can get a wide variety of sounds from Santana to twang to just grimy blues--really fun to play.

However, they can be finnicky, and raising or lowering the pole pieces creates bizarre differences. From what you are saying, I would think that they would make no difference, but they do (and greatly to the point that you kind of can't predict the effect). Should I just put them down flat and raise or lower the entire pickups?

I know you are not a fan of these, but hey--they are kind of like quirky P90s in a good way (for me). Anyway, just curious how the fake pole pieces would play a role here. Or maybe they do play a role but should be kept flat to the pickup?

Thanks,

K

17

The 2K's just sound like a weak pickup that's too far from the strings, and the fake magnet slugs look silly.

Btw, when playing a 2K equipped guitar I never thought of them being "weak".

18

No--they are not weak. Mine are much louder than the filts on my gretches.

K

19

No--they are not weak. Mine are much louder than the filts on my gretches.

K

– Konrad

You've obviously never tried a real DeArmond, or a real P90. It's all relative.

20

Konrad - yes. Raise the entire pickup and leave the poles flush. Only fine adjustments for string Volume balance needed

21

Thanks, Chiming.

K


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