I had an idea. No, like others, I didn't want to spend almost $500 on a set of Duncan Dynasonics to upgrade my weak sounding Gretsch Dynasonics from my brand new 6120DSW. Let me qualify my position. My first Gretsch I owned was a real 56 6120. After that I had a 57 hump-block. I than dabbled in some filtertron models but I grew to love the Dynasonics and the heat the could throw. The new Gretsch ones were very disappointing but the guitar itself was spot on to my vintage ones. I have a few 60's Fender guitars and as the pickups in them go I send then to Lindy Fralin to rewind them. I called him and explained the Dynasonic dilema. His response? Send em over. He rewound them to exact vintage specs (11.5 in the bridge and 10.8 in the neck)using the correct wire. He RW one so they are now hum cancelling. They sound dead on to my vintage ones. The price??? $60 a piece. So if you are looking to upgrade call Lindy. The man just flat out knows what he is doing. 
Alternative Dynasonic upgrade to Seymour Duncan
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Oct 6, 2008 9:50 p.m. wigglytail:
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- Rated: 19 ↑
Oct 6, 2008 10:10 p.m. Gretschadelphia:
I'm pretty happy with the stock Dyna's in my Duo Jet (of course I've never played vintage Dyna's). But for 60.00 a piece, that's pretty darn tempting.
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Oct 6, 2008 10:10 p.m. dmanlow:
Thanks for the info.
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Oct 6, 2008 10:27 p.m. wenzel:
If I had dyna's I know who I'd be calling... The price alone is worth it over seymours IMO.
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Oct 6, 2008 10:34 p.m. antik:
Holy cow. Now you got me seriously thinking about spending some more money. I love the sound of my stock Dynasonics. But the thought they could sound even better...
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Oct 6, 2008 10:37 p.m. Proteus:
Yes, a good solution, and if you're happy, you're happy!
As a niggling historical point, though, the general testimony of people who have examined bunches of vintage Dynas (TV Jones, FMIC, and the like) is that there's no one consistent vintage spec, that the pickups ranged from the high 7s/low 8s to as high as 13k.
Everyone's notion of what is vintage-correct seems to be based on a particular favorite guitar (or the only guitar) they measured. On this board we've had direct user reports of guitars with the variance mentioned above, and each reporter – till he saw credible evidence of the variation – would previously have considered his experience definitive.
Just saying it doesn't seem to be as cut-and-dried as "exact vintage specs (11.5 in the bridge and 10.8 in the neck)."
If it were, why would, first the Fred Gretsch Co, and then FMIC, have chosen the values they're using, and continued to use them for a decade? There's no conspiracy of corporate mediocrity at work – FMIC has worked hard to improve the vintage-accuracy of the guitars in nearly every way – and no profit motive to do it wrong, as a few more wraps of wire would make a miniscule difference in the price of the pickups.
In no way am I dumping on your solution – there IS a kind of consensus among Dyna-obsessors that something a bit stronger than the 8-9k of most production models would be "better."
Of course everyone's mileage varies, and if it suits you, it's perfect.
The Fralin re-wind is obviously cost-effective, and no one doubts Fralin's ability. But, again, Dyna obsessors stickling over every detail both functional and cosmetic will point out that the shapes of the pup housings and the polepieces of the Seymour Dynas are closer to vintage practice, and a re-wind of the stockers won't change those things.
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- Rated: 67 ↑
Oct 6, 2008 10:46 p.m. antik:
I have to say the stock pickups on the DSV do not sound weak to me. Far from it.
But then again I always loved the sound of my Gretsch with filtertrons until I had a chance to play a vintage Annie. That was an eye opening experience.
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- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 6, 2008 10:55 p.m. riz:
Proteus, I think the main complaint is the new ones sounding a bit thin. I wouldn't know, never having played new ones, I just hang out around here, and I hear things... From what I gather they've put more work into making them LOOK right rather than SOUND right. O.k. riz, enough already. What I logged on to say was that Lindy rewound a set for me out of a '55, and used a similar spec. They kick ass. I do tend to favor mid-9's for the sweetness (my '56 is IT) when playing overdriven (and a nice airy sound clean), but through a Fender amp, those pickups Fralin did drop the hammer DOWN on some twang. They don't really sound like any of my other vintage dynas (oh my, am I at 5 sets now...?)--a bit edgier. Then again, all the ones I have sound different. Part of the fun of dynas. Wigglytail, you could really be on to something here. I think Lindy's services are a bargain.
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Oct 6, 2008 11:17 p.m. RepentOrPerish:
Thats awesome news. Cool man!
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Oct 7, 2008 12:35 a.m. Proteus:
Oh yes, I'm aware of the complaints. I've had the stock ones in three modern Gretschs, and swapped out for the Seymours in my Jet, sensing I wanted a bit more push. I like them, I'm not changing back to stock – but I'm not even tempted to change out the DSV or the Club, in which I sense no manner of lack.
For readers of this thread who don't remember the (reasonably recent) history of Dynalore on the GDP, there were these threads which went into it exhaustively:
Duncan vs Stock Dyna Direct Comparison
Summary and Dyna Discussion.And at least a couple other guys have hosted extensive threads reviewing Dynas as well.
From what I gather they've put more work into making them LOOK right rather than SOUND right.
Well, that doesn't seem to be the story about the Gretsch versions. The SEYmours are thought to look closer to the originals. Those who don't much like the Gretsch Dynas say three things: they're wound wrong, they're built wrong, and they look wrong. For most guys, they seem to look close enough, and with adjustment make a lot of people sonically pretty happy.
The Seymour proponents seem to say, number one, that they sound transformatively better – and, secondarily, that they look more the part as well.
I understand the passion about Dynasonics, because they're such addictive pickups, and those of us who find them all-time-favorite pups get crazy about our favorite versions.
I just find much to like in ALL the varieties. It's cool there are places to get affordable winds to each individual's preference.
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- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 2:50 a.m. riz:
Just here to "vote up" Lindy's work. I'd love to try some Seymours sometime, sure, but I think it's great if someone's on to an alternative, which is what this thread's about. Seems like it might appeal to alot of folks here.
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- Rated: 53 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 4:39 a.m. Ratrod:
Let us know how the rewounds sound. It's amazing what a difference a quality (scatter) rewind can do to a pickup.
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Oct 7, 2008 6:08 a.m. Chonny:
Bare Knuckle needs to start making Gretsch Pickups.
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Oct 7, 2008 6:26 a.m. billydlight:
Yep I used to buy the broken ones cheap and send them off to fralin. He does a nice job.
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- Rated: 48 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 7:13 a.m. dmanlow:
Will Seymour Duncan rewind stock Dyna's?
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- Rated: 66 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 8:22 a.m. Walter Broes:
Proteus said: If it were, why would, first the Fred Gretsch Co, and then FMIC, have chosen the values they're using, and continued to use them for a decade? There's no conspiracy of corporate mediocrity at work – FMIC has worked hard to improve the vintage-accuracy of the guitars in nearly every way – and no profit motive to do it wrong, as a few more wraps of wire would make a miniscule difference in the price of the pickups.
Proteus, the Fred Gretsch co was selling $2000 ++ guitars with extremely cheesy mini-pots, sub-par switches, and "Filtertrons" that didn't have much to do with filtertrons except the look, before Mike Lewis stepped in.A lot has changed under FMIC, but I think if you ask Mike Lewis what helped him at least a little bit in doing that, it was the mass of criticism for the existing Gretsches at the time, on the GDP.
It's almost a little strange you keep "defending" (poor choice of words..) a pickup that quite often just falls apart, shorts out, and, no matter how you look at it, is cheaply made compared to the originals or indeed the Duncans. I'm not making this up, I own a pair of modern Dynas, have a bunch of friends who own Dyna equipped modern Gretsches, and have read numerous accounts on the GDP of these things failing.
If you hit the top of a modern Dyna a little too hard with your pick, the bobbin will come apart from the casing.
As I've said before on here, I think modern Dynas might be underwound on purpose : a lot of people think "twang" (----> Duane Eddy!) when they think "DeArmond pickup", while in practice, most healty old ones produce as much "grunt" as they do "twang".
Duane Eddy's custom amp rig was unusually loud, clean, and full-range for its time (100W, JBLD130, ànd a tweeter!), and I think that was for good reason.
"Rebel Rouser" would have probably sounded more like a Link Wray tune had Mr Eddy plugged into the standard guitar amp of the day on stage, I think.Keeping the wind on modern Dynas slightly lower and tamer ensures the enthousiastic Gretsch fan got the expected twang and clang through his Blues Junior or similar small, modern, gainy amp, that's my take on it anyway.
Another possiblity is that whoever re-designed them voiced them with a "Fender ear", or plain just didn't have a clue.As for rewinding the new ones, I'm surprised not more people have though of it. I've had a lead one rewound by my tech/buddy awhile ago, and at 12K, it sounds better to me than it did stock.
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- Rated: 212 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 8:24 a.m. Proteus:
riz, I'm not suggesting Seymour Dynas are the last word, or denigrating Fralin rewinds. I'd sure do the Fralin thing rather than order Seymours the next time.
My only niggle was with the implication that there's just one vintage spec – so that guys who are contemplating getting deep into Dyna territory will have a headsup that there are decisions to make...
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Oct 7, 2008 8:45 a.m. J(esse James)D:
All I can say is that I have some Fralins in my Tele. Awesome pups in every way.
I saw that he "offers" rewinding of Dynas, and I'm glad that someone has finally reported on "how they sound". It has been interesting me.
I've really got nothing against Duncan, even though a few of his "idiots" have made me mad with the "Cali" attitude over the years.
I understand business, margin and marketing, and a profit has to be made to keep the doors open.
Are Duncans overpriced? Maybe, but they are the only "option" out there for new/old style Dynas. There's a lot there too in a Dyna, so they can't be priced like most modern "buckers"
At this point, I will probably opt for the Fralin rewinds at some point in time.
I'm still "out" for the moment.
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- Rated: 212 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 8:46 a.m. Proteus:
Walter, I'm not defending the stock Dynas, though I like them. I know you're not making it up. I've read the fall-apart stories (none of mine have), and I know one of Synchro's mysteriously failed. (We've also heard of DOA TV Jones pups.)
They are what they are, and we're all free to decide for ourselves.
But I'm not making it up either. I'm calling to mind the recollections of various people closer to the process of bringing the modern Dyna to market than I am, trying to keep the story clearer.
(I'm paraphrasing the "Chapter Three/What I've Learned" post from this thread here.) The probability is that when Fred reintroduced the pickup, he used vintage pickups from his own or Duke Kramer's collections as models for the factory.
(Caveat: I didn't talk with Fred about it back in February; I'd like to pursue that and maybe get his recollections. I think the pup came back in connection with the Duane Eddy model; maybe Duane would have some insight into the development process as well.)
Mike has indeed said on many occasions that the GDP was a large part of his roadmap for improving the line once FMIC "took over." That being the case – and given the major revamp of Filtertrons – why wasn't the Dynasonic redone?
"Didn't have a clue" seems a little harsh, but there may be something in the notion that in opting to remain toward the low end of the vintage range of outputs, there was an attempt to maintain twang in small amps, for better congruence with the hobby player's perception of Duanetone at household volumes.
My own experience has been that the stock Tokiwa pups sound great in hollowbodies – and a little weak in Jets.
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- Rated: 66 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 8:54 a.m. Walter Broes:
Proteus said: (I'm paraphrasing the "Chapter Three/What I've Learned" post from this thread here.) The probability is that when Fred reintroduced the pickup, he used vintage pickup from his own or Duke Kramer's collections as models for the factory.
I believe it was Dinah Gretsch (but I'm not sure!) who said on the GDP the current Dynasonics were "produced from the original molds!", but having an old and a new pair side by side reveals that that just plain isn't the case.(Caveat: I didn't talk with Fred about it back in February; I'd like to pursue that and maybe get his recollections. I think the pup came back in connection with the Duane Eddy model; maybe Duane would have some insight into the development process as well.)
My main gripe with these things is that they're a little too cheesy, construction-wise, to have as standard equipment on guitars in this price range.
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- Rated: 212 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 9:36 a.m. Proteus:
Yup, completely understood.
I think if they were glued/soldered together better, everything else is pretty solid, no? The bobbin, polepieces, other components don't strike me as substandard.
Knowing none of this lore at the time, my first experience with even the stock Dynasonics told me immediately they were my new favorite pickups...and they've remained so.
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- Rated: 66 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 9:42 a.m. Walter Broes:
The actual metal casing is made out of a very strange material that's probably related to metal, especially apparent when you have them next to (FMIC produced!!) DeArmond 2K's and 2000's, or of course, the vintage ones.
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- Rated: 53 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 10:59 a.m. Ratrod:
In recent years we've seen more and more Gretsches factory equipped with TV Jones pickups.
It would be nice if Gretsch/FMIC struck a deal with Seymour Duncan and start loading guitars with SD Dynas at the factory.
Could this be the future? There are already some Custom Shop models with SD Dynas.
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Oct 7, 2008 4:49 p.m. Gretschadelphia:
I don't know, the stock Dyna's sound pretty good to me...but I'm one of those guys playing down in my basement through a Blues Jr. and a couple pedals. I can't attest to the quality of construction of the stock Dyna's at this point. It seems what is pretty unanimous amongst most GDP'ers (myself included) is that a few more winds on the bridge Dyna would be a simple and easy upgrade that FMIC could make to balance out the two pu's more and add a bit more "ballsiness" to the bridge position w/o compromising "twang". The other thing to also remember is back in the "day" when Dynasonics ruled the earth
most amps (even those played on stage) were little 15 watters much like Blues Jrs (unless somebody had the $$$ to score a Bassman or 40 watt tweed Twin
). If I crank up my Jr those stock Dyna's (especially on the two pu setting) get pretty wild and wooly and will shake my house like no other single coil pu.
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- Rated: 28 ↑
Oct 7, 2008 5:32 p.m. troy6120:
Here we go again....................
