With the news about the new G5420 and G5422 being leaked along woth photos, Gibson/Epihone have countered with their band new Black Royale range! They have taken their inspiration directly from the Gretsch Silver Falcon and Gretsch Brian Setzer Phoenix. Apart from the black gloss finish, chrome hardware and silver sparkle binding, the new Epiphone Emperor Swingster Royale now sports a silver painted plexi pickguard! Sound familiar? It's also the first time the Swingster has received a stock pickguard since their introduction to counter the highly successful G5120 series. This will now put the Swingster Royale on par with the G5120 while Gretsch/FMIC discontinue that model and bring in the G5420. Here's a peek at the new Black Swingster Royale:

Did the Epiphones carry filters before?

Epiphone might have it's mojo working but this one just doesn't work on me.

Meh... I don't get it: if you want a guitar that looks like a Gretsch, why don't you just buy a Gretsch? Not a COPY from one of the competitors... With all the Electro's out there, you'll most certainly be able to get one at a good price anyway. I prefer Epiphone's Gibson models over this one.

And while I'm on the Gretsch-a-like subject: for the last couple of years, I've seen the white Ibanez AF-75 advertised with "this is the guitar for all the Brian Setzer fanatics!" So - when did the Setz' start playing an Ibanez? Recently, they changed the text to "...many rockabilly players have this one in their collection", so maybe I'm not the only one reacting.

Back to the Epiphone - I'm sure it's a good guitar, but a big company like Gibson getting into the Gretsch territory is just stupid IMO.

Anders

I don't think Gretsch has anything to worry about. . .

sligo...not Filters...just humbuckers with a different cover...just like Gretschbuckers...(Epi does have a split coil on theirs though...)

I don't think Gretsch has anything to worry about. . .

+1 on that.

I doubt that Epi "reacted" this quickly to a few photos and 5422's hitting the streets three weeks ago. It takes a lot longer than that in the corporate world, to come up with a new line up of guitars.

Ain't no substitute if you want a Gretsch. You won't get that "Great Gretsch Sound" from a Epi

Ain't no substitute if you want a Gretsch. You won't get that "Great Gretsch Sound" from a Epi

I agree meh...these Epi's have been around for awhile. Never was crazy about the Gibson/Gretsch hybrid look of the guitar. From my experience of playing them is shops, they do play very nicely and appear to be nicely made. I would have actually been very interested if they came with a pair of Dogear P-90's instead of the Epi version of "Gretschbuckers".

They come coil-tapped and phase-switchable so they generate a wide variety of tones. If you don't mind the Queen Mary of All Headstocks, having to reach a mile for the bigsby handle, the symmetric yet oddly unbalanced f-hole placement, and general ugliness - They're worth a look (if you're not brand loyal.)

gretschaholic, "Gibson getting into the Gretsch territory is just stupid IMO. "

Actually, it is good marketing strategy. Epiphone to the younger market is a much more familiar brand than Gretsch and therefore they will be more comfortable with a brand they know well and recognize.

Secondly, whenever any niche product, not just guitars, are getting a big share of the pie, everyone else jumps into the fray wanting a piece of that pie for themselves. This is Capitalism at its best.

Third, this can actually benefit Gretsch. The more the Gretsch name is bandied about, the more familiar it becomes to the uninformed.

Look how many Stratocaster, Telecaster, and Les Paul clones there are. This hasn't hurt Gibson or Fender one bit because eventually those that can afford the real thing, will step up to the plate. Gibson and Fender make their own clones with the Epiphone and Squier brands.

We are conditioned by the media and those we admire to covet certain brand names: Fender, Gibson, Gretsch, Armani, Gucci, Calvin Klein, and the list goes on forever. We are the perfect example of this. We all want, and it is important to us, to have the name "GreTscH" on our headstocks for one reason or another

I like this Epiphone and if I were in the market for a guitar in the Electromatic price range, I'd play them all, Gretsch, Epiphone, Ibanez, etc,. and buy the one I liked the best and offered the most bang for my buck. What Gretsch has to do is be sure THEY are the ones offering the most bang for the buck and stay competitive in pricing structure.

I have owned plenty of Epiphones, and generally, I've thought very highly of them. BUT...there is absolutely nothing about the Swingster line that speaks to me. Especially now that I have a couple of 5120s.

Dear Epiphone, if you're watching, dump the Swingster, and bring back the ES-295. You can paint it different colors, for all I care, but that was a guitar.

Ditto to the above sentiments. I have quite a few Epi's, including the Joe Pass Emperor II that was the starting point for the Swingster, but somehow the Swingster leaves me unaffected. It's well-made and well thought out, and the coil splitting is a useful feature, but --- it doesn't speak to me in the way that either my Joe Pass (one of the prettiest guitars I own) or my 5120 do.

funny how nobody gets themselves in an uproar when Gretsch brings out a Pro Jet with a sunburst finish and a stop tailpiece that'd pass for a Les Paul in bright sunlight.

There is probably plenty of that over on the Gibby sites.

funny how nobody gets themselves in an uproar when Gretsch brings out a Pro Jet with a sunburst finish and a stop tailpiece that'd pass for a Les Paul in bright sunlight.

BINGO!

I have owned plenty of Epiphones, and generally, I've thought very highly of them. BUT...there is absolutely nothing about the Swingster line that speaks to me. Especially now that I have a couple of 5120s.

Dear Epiphone, if you're watching, dump the Swingster, and bring back the ES-295. You can paint it different colors, for all I care, but that was a guitar.

My sentiments exactly. I have a '97 Epi ES-295. It is a helluva guitar.

Proposed new thread title:

Epiphone Strikes Out!

Just doesn't do much for me. Epi makes some killer guitars, and I have no doubt that this is a decent hollow body. It's just not for me.

It is good that they see Gretsch as enough of a contender to keep the swingsters going and getting closer to Gretsch style. Speaks volumes about how well Gretsch is doing in Epi's price range.

I want to add to my initial post in this thread. My love for "That Great GreTscH Sound" came from hearing first, Duane Eddy and then Chet Atkins. I wanted a guitar like those gents played.

However, I am old enough to remember when there was no such thing as a "vintage" guitar. They were either new or used; and in those days the trend was to have a brand new one.

I graduated from high school in 1965 and I was already gigging pretty steadily. When I went to buy a new guitar, I was sure I was going to get a Gretsch. However, that was the beginning of the guitar boom and Gretsch in the '60s was putting out some pretty shoddy guitars quality wise.

I mean no disrespect to Dan Duffy but I'd be willing to bet his boss made him sign the okay card on guitars he would have preferred for kindling on a bonfire. Gretsch had orders and quotas to fill so quality control was forced to take a back seat to profit and cash flow. Business is business and it is not always managed correctly.

Needless to say, I was very disillusioned in Gretsch guitars after lusting after them for so many years. Thusly, my first new Pro level guitar was not the Gretsch I had dreamed about for years but instead was a candy apple red Fender Stratocaster.

I would occasionally get Gretsch lust again and after six different '60s Gretsch guitars, I said to hell with it. These are junk.

I did not even think about Gretsch again until I heard that Fred Gretsch III had signed a manufacturing, marketing and distribution deal with FMIC. I now feel that Gretsch guitars are some of the finest guitars made today where quality is consistent, and excellent.

Apparently others are feeling the same way because you're now seeing them in music videos and TV commercials and the Gretsch name is regaining popularity which in turn leads to more and more sales of them. This is why other makers are trying to jump on the bandwagon with "Gretsch type" guitars so they can get a piece of the profit pie for themselves.

Slim profile neck

Bear-- I like just about everything in your last post. You have sized up the situation very realistically.

I am a big fan of the Epiphone brand, and most of their guitars. I wouldn't mind a Swingster, but make due with these Signatures...Wahi'

...wisdom

It's amazing how many players who haven't actually played a Swingster hate on them... I own a Swingster (with a Epi Custom Shop-added pickguard) and it's a helluva great guitar. And yes, I've owned and played vintage and new Gretsches for 40 years; I chose it over 5120s and 5122s when I was out shopping last year. I owned a '60s double-cut Chet Atkins Nashville back in the day and the Swingster pummels it for playability and workmanship, as well as versatility (series/parallel switching on each pickup).

gretschaholic, "Gibson getting into the Gretsch territory is just stupid IMO. "

Actually, it is good marketing strategy. Epiphone to the younger market is a much more familiar brand than Gretsch and therefore they will be more comfortable with a brand they know well and recognize.

Secondly, whenever any niche product, not just guitars, are getting a big share of the pie, everyone else jumps into the fray wanting a piece of that pie for themselves. This is Capitalism at its best.

Third, this can actually benefit Gretsch. The more the Gretsch name is bandied about, the more familiar it becomes to the uninformed.

Look how many Stratocaster, Telecaster, and Les Paul clones there are. This hasn't hurt Gibson or Fender one bit because eventually those that can afford the real thing, will step up to the plate. Gibson and Fender make their own clones with the Epiphone and Squier brands.

We are conditioned by the media and those we admire to covet certain brand names: Fender, Gibson, Gretsch, Armani, Gucci, Calvin Klein, and the list goes on forever. We are the perfect example of this. We all want, and it is important to us, to have the name "GreTscH" on our headstocks for one reason or another

I like this Epiphone and if I were in the market for a guitar in the Electromatic price range, I'd play them all, Gretsch, Epiphone, Ibanez, etc,. and buy the one I liked the best and offered the most bang for my buck. What Gretsch has to do is be sure THEY are the ones offering the most bang for the buck and stay competitive in pricing structure.

Yup, I know it's a good marketing strategy and all, but I still wish they (Epiphone/Gibson) would be - in lack of a better word - too proud of their own heritage to "sink" to this level. I understand that no-name brands have to do this to move their products (don't get me started on the Chinese-built ORANGE Gretsch White Falcon copies with a "Made in the USA" sticker on the back of the headstock. "Stupid" doesn't cover what I think about those... )

Like I said, I don't doubt that this is a pretty good guitar, but I don't like the look of it. The "hips" are too narrow, and I don't like the cutaway. And if I were to shop for a hollow body in this price range, I must admit the Ibanez AF75 is much more appealing to me, shape-wise. I already know they're nice players...

Anders

see, the thing that bugs me about threads like this is the amount of unwarranted assumptions and negativity that gets laid on what really should be a neutral subject. the OP is full of hostile interpretations that IMO aren't grounded in anything other than personal animosity. from what i've seen from the Epi e-mail list, the Black Royales have been out for weeks already, before the 5420s were premiered. it's sort of silly to call them a direct attack on the 5420 when Epi has a full line of Royale guitars, most of which have nothing to do with anything Gretsch. and really, it's not as though there's never been a black guitar before, or a black archtop, or a black guitar with sparkle binding. jeepers, in Italy they probably had sparkle archtops with black binding.

in any case, i don't really see the Swingster as being in direct competition with anything Gretsch sells. Epiphone seems to want the market Gretsch ISN'T filling: people in the more-or-less r'n'r/billy market looking for a small-bodied archtop/archtop-esque guitar that's less expensive, fiddly, and subject to covetous thieves than a Gretsch. they've been running the Kat series guitars in this niche for years--remember the one with the flames and dice knobs?--and a r'n'r version of the Joe Pass was the logical next step. why no ES-295? they tried it, and it didn't sell any more than the other Gibson archtop copies did, because people didn't want cheap knockoffs of Gibson archtops. and because there's a plethora of good full-sized rock and roll archtops already. but there's also a lot of people for whom a 16" or 17" guitar is uncomfortably large.