The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Other Guitars: cheap Jazz Box?

cheap Jazz Box?

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- Rated: 212 ↑
Aug 27, 2008 5:50 p.m. Proteus:

It's endless.

That it is.
- Rated: 58 ↑
Aug 27, 2008 5:57 p.m. yettoblaster:

Yeah. Like many of my posts!
- Rated: 83 ↑
Aug 27, 2008 10:51 p.m. Mark Synchro:

IMO, Yetto makes a very good point regarding the effect of a wooden bridge on tone. I did this trick myself, on a G 3161 and ended up with a very good Jazz sound out of a guitar that cost me less than $600. A very dark sounding set of Gretschbuckers didn’t hurt matter either. While it sounded great it was very feedback prone, probably a trade-off in view of its surprising acoustic performance.

I love the sound that Wes Montgomery got, warm but not muddy yet softened by the lack of a pick. He played through Standels or Fender Twins, both of which are super clean amps. IMO, it is one of the greatest sounds in the history of Jazz guitar.

Traditional Jazz guitars that are very strong acoustically, such as L-5s or D’Angelico RIs are great sounding but they still have their limitations. The nasty part is just not in their DNA and usually feedback lurks nearby waiting for you to make a false move.

Many notable Jazz guitarists have played a 16”, laminate wood guitar with a single cut-in pickup. Early ES-175s fit this description as well as the equivalent Epis, Guilds etc. It’s worth noting that Jimmy D’Aquisto’s “Jazz Line” model fits this spec as well. More than a few Jazz guitarists have traded the acoustic character of a solid-wood 17” archtop for a 16” laminate because of some very viable advantages such as feedback resistance and a naturally warm sound that doesn’t require setting the tone control way down.

FWIW, I played a Setzer Black Phoenix today at Redbone Music in San Antonio. Plugged into a Vibro King (with all of it’s tone controls at 4) and it sounded wonderful for Jazz on the neck pickup. It could “even get a bit nasty from time to time”, especially when you put it on the bridge pickup. While it’s hardly a traditional Jazz guitar in appearance it definitely comes through sonically and it is feedback resistant to boot.

There really isn’t one perfect solution. Big 17” and 18” jazz boxes sound great but they are very feedback prone. The smaller 16” laminate guitars sound pretty good amplified but they don’t have as much punch acoustically. Some folks, like the late Grant Green, have been able to achieve a great sound with a thin hollow-body such as the Es-330 or the Epi Casino.

FWIW, I have a page on my web site devoted to a discussion of laminate vs. sold woods.
- Rated: 41 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 12:40 p.m. dubkitty:

I think Gibson tried nylon saddles in tune-o-matics years ago to try and get a woodier sound with intonation accuracy.

this is correct...my ES335, built in 1968, originally had nylon saddles in the Tunomatic.
- Rated: 21 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 12:46 p.m. GentlBen:

Dmanlow, I have had several requests to see my Bluesabilly Regent but I don't know how to attach a picture.
- Rated: 21 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 12:58 p.m. GentlBen:

Dmanlow, I did manage to change my Avatar. Guess I can post it like that. I'll take some pictures of my Epi ASAP.
- Rated: 21 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 1:02 p.m. GentlBen:

"Opinions are like underarms, except you have two of them, and they are hairy and sweat a lot and then again maybe they aren't like underarms at all but that's just my opinion."GentlBen
- Rated: 48 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 1:37 p.m. dmanlow:

Thanks GentlBen. If you want to post pics you'll need to use a hosting site like Photobucket. Upload the pic there and then use the direct link in the photo section here.
- Rated: 21 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 1:41 p.m. GentlBen:

This post has been deleted
- Rated: 21 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 1:41 p.m. GentlBen:

Thank you Dman,

I don't know if I can do that here at work!
- Rated: 14 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 3:47 p.m. MarkW:

I still say 335 style guits do great jazz.

Lee Rittenauer & Larry Carlton

John Scofield, Larry Carlton & John Patitucci

What I have learned from watching these is jazz is all in the shoulder movement and the facial expression.
- Rated: 58 ↑
Aug 28, 2008 5:44 p.m. yettoblaster:

Yup. Just watch Anthony Wilson (with Diana Krall).
- Rated: 25 ↑
Aug 29, 2008 1:12 p.m. Dawg:

"There really isn’t one perfect solution. Big 17” and 18” jazz boxes sound great but they are very feedback prone."

I keep seeing this comment in various places - I never suffer from feedback with my 16" 17" and 18" archtops through a '65 RI Twin. Even when it gets pretty loud and my volume's on 5/6. Zilch.

I've always used twin speaker configurations, pretty much always twins over the past 16 years and fairly recently also a Vibroking. Interestingly, I got feedback a little using a single speaker 22W '65 deluxe reverb RI.........
- Rated: 58 ↑
Aug 29, 2008 6:25 p.m. yettoblaster:

I find with a clean tone I can go louder than I need to with most of the archtops I've had that had built-in pickups.

However with a lot of distortion and compression that changes.

I've been fortunate in that sometimes it's very usable feedback!
- Rated: 41 ↑
Aug 30, 2008 11:42 a.m. dubkitty:

why is the CC type of pickup so popular in a Tele but not a Strat.

it may be as simple as this: look at a Tele and a Strat. which has sufficient space to mount a PU as wide as a CC without running off the edge of the pickguard or, in the case of the bridge PU, into the bridge?