that's not too far off, and it's certainly much closer than the “tone knob on 0” thing you hear so often, but that actually kind of maybe takes it a bit too far the other way! i'd say that the “holy grail” i'm seeking would probably be somewhere in between the Charlie Christian and Grant Green clips i posted up there somewhere…
how come the only place you see Charlie Christian pickups these days is on Telecasters?
Wow barney is awesome that's the kind of jazz i like what would you call that? i don't really like piano,sax or singing in jazz. Drums guitar and bass is all i wanna hear.
do not be afraid said: how come the only place you see Charlie Christian pickups these days is on Telecasters?
Looks like you can have one of your very own to put anywhere you'd like . . .
Of course, they're not giving them away.
Robert said: Maybe? this is an example of what you're hearing:Oh yeah man. I'm so glad you posted that. It was on youtube but has since been taken down. I'm glad it's up on the site you used. Doesn't get ANY better than that right there.Barney Kessel
Wow this guy has his own pickup? ive never heard of that before, does it have another name?
TwangOmatic said: Wow this guy has his own pickup? ive never heard of that before, does it have another name?
Here's some background . . . CC Pickup Origins
What about a Peerless? Anyone here ever played one?
Andy J Vintage Vibe pickups makes a CC type pickup for the Tele and a humbucker drop in . I have the Humbucker on a sparkle jet. The sell for about $85.00 for the drop in. I get a nice sound especially on blues very very nasty. I sometimes put in an Ibanez archtop and can get a Kessell sound. Not like the real ES-150 sound but a nice early sound. Someday I mite break down and get the CC made in England to prewar standards . The CC pickup is the fattest sound of them all or a least for the Jazz tone. They have a you tube video by Austin based Dave Biller with and after market Lollar on a Tele. I can get that sound with the Vintage Vibe and the Jet.
Proteus, What is the Epiphone machine? As much as I hate to admit it, my Epiphone sounds better, plays easier and looks every bit as good as my Gent. I am sure those others are fine guitars too, but why the attack on Epiphone?
Just humor, GB. Gibson has always come in for a bit of bashing here, only some of it serious, and I was playing along with that.
It made a lot more sense in the original context of the thread, when we thought dnba was looking for an economy archtop non-cutaway mostly-acoustic jazz box, which I don't believe Epiphone is making at the moment.
When it drifted to full-electric, cutaway, double-pickup thinlines and fullbodies, the whole ground of the discussion shifted. Obviously Epiphone has product to offer in those areas. And the Casino and Sheraton, insofar as they're jazzboxes, are ONLY available as Epiphone originals. I'm all for that.
AND if he was looking for high-end vintage jazz boxes, Epiphone would be all OVER that discussion.
I'm quite fond of my Epiphones too. Since they sound very different, and have different neck profiles, it's hard to say they're "better" than my Gent. Neither replaces the other.
They work just fine, though.
I guess I am becoming jaded. I thought Epiphone was the economy line! I guess I have lost touch! Next thing you know I won't be able to remember how many houses I own. 
awfurby said: What about a Peerless? Anyone here ever played one?
Yes, I own one and it is a phenomenal guitar. It doesn't have the Peerless name on the headstock as it was built as a Carlo Robelli for the Sam Ash chain but it is all Peerless.
$599.00 with hardshell case... BRAND NEW!
Hey Bear...Everytime you post that pic...One good looking guitar!
Well, Epiphone has a long and often distinguished history. It's been Gibson's ecconomy line since the late 50s, when Gibson bought the company. Before that, it was an important competitor to Gibson, with luthier-built archtops from New York, many beautiful, responsive instruments, some quite ornate in an art deco way.
And though Gibson made the brand into a junior stablemate, Epiphone has frequently offered unique models which weren't simply cheaper copies. The Casino and the current 'kat series are examples. And while Epi's bread and butter is undoubtedly endless LP and SG knockoffs, Gibson often deploys the brand to issue other Gibson models not currently in the Gibson line - and those are usually well-made instruments at fair prices which satisfy all but a collector's need for the originals.
As mentioned above, the Elitist series (a regrettable name) models generally equal pro-line Gibsons in quality, and approach Gretsch.
If there's anything I think Gibson consistently does right, it's Epiphone (aside from some dicey years in the 80s and early 90s).
Proteus
I agree. The Epi line really represents good value for what you get at the price paid. It is unfortunate that many Gibson's ship with issues. At the prices they charge, they really should be close to perfect.
My two Riviera's were/are as nice as several 335's i have owned. They are not direct comparison's because the specs (neck size, pups) are different, but when I got done playing each and reflected on the finish, playability, sound and the price paid I ended up selling the 335's and kept both Epi's.
I have not played an Elitist but have heard nothing but good. I may take a stab (1 more time) at an Elitist Casino if I can find one to play.
Thanks Mark. I really love that guitar and it plays and sounds even better than it looks.
Hope I did not overlook this if anyone mentioned this but why is the CC type of pickup so popular in a Tele but not a Strat. Never seen anyone with one in a Strat but plenty of Teles.
DeArmond:well, there are a lot of people out there who love the Telecaster's bridge pickup sound, but hate the neck pickup, and it's often thought of as one of the Telecaster's weak points, so a lot of people like to change it out for… well… just about anything and everything! you see Telecasters with Stratocaster pickups, humbuckers, minihumbuckers, P-90s, Filter'Trons, and so on, and so forth.Hope I did not overlook this if anyone mentioned this but why is the CC type of pickup so popular in a Tele but not a Strat. Never seen anyone with one in a Strat but plenty of Teles.
of course, the same is true of the Stratocaster's bridge pickup, but Charlie Christian pickups probably wouldn't work too well in the bridge position (at least not if they're “vintage correct!”), and, even if they would, they tend to appeal more to Jazz, Blues, and Jump Blues players, who almost always use the neck pickup anyways!
Proteus:well, really, i think i still am looking more for a “mostly acoustic” Jazz box (although, i wouldn't actually mind a cutaway!) i just got a little bit of a craving for a Casino after playing one in the store (and it's pretty much calmed down by now!), and other people started mentioning that it actually might make a nice Jazz box, and one thing leads to another, and… whatever…It made a lot more sense in the original context of the thread, when we thought dnba was looking for an economy archtop non-cutaway mostly-acoustic jazz box, which I don't believe Epiphone is making at the moment.
When it drifted to full-electric, cutaway, double-pickup thinlines and fullbodies, the whole ground of the discussion shifted. Obviously Epiphone has product to offer in those areas. And the Casino and Sheraton, insofar as they're jazzboxes, are ONLY available as Epiphone originals. I'm all for that.
that Godin is probably still at the top of the heap, if the P-90 version is ever released!
if i were looking for something to mod, though, i'd probably get the Epiphone Zephyr Regent, then replace the humbucker with one of those Vintage Vibe humbucker-sized Charlie Christian-esque pickups and the Tune-o-Matic with a rosewood bridge. that might be just about perfect…
hmm…
modding something is the only way to go, i reckon, as you probably wont get the 'perfect' machine right off the bat.
the zephyr regent is a high candidate, or the godin kingpin... i like the look of the non-cutaway godin (does anyone know the body depth on these????), but the zephyr is a fat 3"1/4, which would sway my mind if the godin were much thinner than that.
casinos are great guitars. you could never make a mistake buying one of those. the elite and lennon models only step-up the dreaminess exponentially.
remember that this is godin's first attempt at building archtops. that translates as dont buy one without playing a few first. and dont think for a second that it's a real p90 on there.
my dream cheapo jazzer: a clean zephyr regent body with new guts and a gibson alnico staple pickup..
ollkorrect said: i like the look of the non-cutaway godin (does anyone know the body depth on these????),Here's a reply to an email I sent Godin which I've posted here before. Be aware that the "set neck" quote seems to be in dispute:
The 5th Avenue has a set neck. Here are the body's dimensions :
body depth : 3 1/4" body lenght : 20" upper bout width : 11 1/2" lower bout width : 16" Regards, Michel
bonedaddy said: I'm so glad you posted thatGlad you liked it. I've been looking for an excuse to post that link, just awesome. I'd like to know if there is a DVD of this entire show.
actually, i just noticed that the Zephyr Regent has a maple top! i could have sworn that i had read it was spruce, and it looks spruce in the pictures i've seen, but according to the Epiphone website it's maple! that and the Tune-o-Matic push it too much towards the electric side of things, and if i'm goin' that way, i'm sure there's plenty of guitars i'd like better! oh well…
A wooden bridge is a big help in getting a jazzy sound. Fortunately, it's not a big expense. Pop it on and string with flats and you won't need to roll the tone knob back much. With a little extra effort (because of body-mounted studs), you could get some cool jazz tones out of, say, a Casino.
And heavy strings will keep you more in a jazz frame of mind. String-bending (and its catalog of 'bluesy' licks) is not a temptation/distraction. Big strings just sound right too.
I took an Emperor Regent and turned it into a rockabilly monster with 3 DeArmond 2k's and a separate volume on each but no tone circuit whatsoever (who needs that?). I am thinking about having the middle pickup rebuilt to RWRP and see if I can get a little Strat quack out of it too!
I'd like to see some pics of that GentlBen. Sounds pretty cool!
I agree with CnW.
Wooden bridges and flatwounds (if they're bright enough, like Pyramids), can transform a guitar sound into THE jazz sound if that's the kind of sound you're after.
I broke out some of the wood under the top of an old Kalamazoo made Epi Casino years ago (leaving enough to support the top) to free up the top some, then installed a "foot type" wooden bridge (had to cut it down some to get the action right on the guitar).
I couldn't tell the difference between the tone on that Epi after mods, and an ES-175 I had concurrently. Both had humbuckers for pu's.
I'm a big believer in a guitar's bridge being important to the sound and can be modded with different material saddles for specific sounds or balance.
I think Gibson tried nylon saddles in tune-o-matics years ago to try and get a woodier sound with intonation accuracy.
I still prefer a wooden bridge because the tune-o-matic adds some mass that must be driven through to get the string's response into the top.
Now of course on many Gretsch models I would prefer the bar bridge for MORE mass, but I'm not looking exclusively for a straight-ahead jazz tone generally, when playing most Gretsches I like (I do like a 5120 with GretschBuckers for jazz specific gigs though).
It's endless.
I also agree with CnW about heavier strings (particularly the trebles) giving me more of what I'm looking for both acoustically and electrically, when it comes to that so-called Jazz tone.
I find that getting too light gauged, especially in the high E string, lends a tendency to a "pingy" quality on many guitars otherwise suited for jazz duties. Most full hollow archtops aren't that particular, depending on the pickups and/or bridges, I find. But when in doubt I use 14's!
