Right after I purchased a Boss DD-20 they come out with the RE-20 space echo. Could someone explain or better yet post audio that would show the differences between Delay - Echo and Reverb Thanks
Echo vs Delay vs Reverb
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Jun 29, 2008 8:28 p.m. LeftyGretsch:
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Jun 29, 2008 9:06 p.m. seadevil:
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Jun 29, 2008 9:10 p.m. Brandon02:
There are demo videos on YouTube of the RE-20. I'm trying to decide between an RE-20 and an MXR Carbon Copy delay. I watched some good demo videos of both on YouTube.
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Jun 29, 2008 9:23 p.m. The Norm:
Excellent graphic seadevil
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Jun 29, 2008 9:56 p.m. seadevil:
I made it myself expressly for this thread.
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Jun 29, 2008 10:39 p.m. berndog:
I have the RE-20 and played it tonight like this
Gretsch 5120 (TV Classics) ----> Keeley TS808 --> Boss RE-20 ---> Blues Pro Jr
Sounded Fantastic. I have also play the Fulltone TTE and let me tell you it is expensive but very nice. I wish I could have A/B'd it with my RE-20.
But I am VERY happy with the RE-20 gets my into that Rockabily tone I look for.
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Jun 29, 2008 11:26 p.m. Hobie:
hey SeaDevil
How about the 1st andn3rd head playback on the RE 20?
Very cute graphic
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Jun 30, 2008 3:35 a.m. Pseudo Man:
A delay unit, simply repeats the original sound at determined intervals (Delay time).
Reverb is more complicated, it simulates the squillions of reflections of a sound in in a space. So there will be repeats like a delay, only many many more, with varying delay times. The repeats from the reverb will also have the bottom end rolled off, in keeping with the way high frequencies will resonate longer in most rooms. This can be done digitally through various algorithms and stuff, or naturally in the case of spring or plate reverb.
Echo normally refers to delay with reverb.
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Jun 30, 2008 9:19 a.m. Bear:
Echo normally refers to delay with reverb.
I agree with Pseudo Man's other definitions but I believe the difference between delay (digital) and echo (analog/tape) is how the treble degrades slightly on each consecutive repeat with echo where it does not degrade at all with delay. Most rockabilly/country players seem to prefer the smother tones of echo vs. delay. I know I do.
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Jun 30, 2008 12:26 p.m. seadevil:
The Roland does a lot of things that would be very, very complex to represent with graphics! I can imagine three-dimensional representations of exploding solar systems with rays of purple and orange light erupting through the shattered crusts of the whirling planetoids...
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Jun 30, 2008 5:11 p.m. Scott:
Excellent graphic seadevil. Bax oughta put a sticky on that one, or put it in some kinda FAQ section.
+1
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Jul 5, 2008 9:59 a.m. atomicwash:
Lefty - The effects all have their own sound. You should buy one of each and compare them for your particular style! Then give us the report.
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Jul 5, 2008 11:52 a.m. cyclopssam:
get a good delay rack unit&you can do all above,your just not going to get w/ a pedal reverse the same w/distotion,not gonna find it in a rack (((((((IMHO))))))
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Jul 6, 2008 12:30 a.m. Nobody:
Yep, outstanding visual rep Seadevil. Very effective. Well done.
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Jul 6, 2008 12:50 a.m. The Norm:
Looka here, boys...
Echo and delay are part of the same critter.
Echo is the repeat of a primary signal (note)
Delay is how much time interval you dial in between the repeated note(s) of the echo. You can have one repeat close to the primary ("slap back") or you can mix in several repeats like Chet does with 'Blue Ocean Echor' or 'Snowbird' to name a couple.
Analog/digital is the means used to run your particular echo gadget. Analog usually means tape driven, digital is all electronic voodoo
Reverb is an electro mechanical effect that gives you the sound of playing in a big empty room.
It is really easy to overuse either effect.
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Jul 6, 2008 2:15 a.m. bigalthethird:
Spring reverb owns all.
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Jul 6, 2008 4:27 p.m. Setzer:
seadevil said: I made it myself expressly for this thread
You got a vote up from me!
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Jul 6, 2008 4:30 p.m. Rocketman:
Is "slap-back" just delay then?
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Jul 6, 2008 5:01 p.m. cyclopssam:
rocketman,
it's "feedback"/decay
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Jul 6, 2008 5:04 p.m. Rocketman:
I was already aware that I need to become a rocketscientist before being able to understand what I use. But I really thought slap back was echo-ish delay. That seems to be really different from feedback/decay.
I guess I need a picture
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Jul 6, 2008 5:59 p.m. The Norm:
Here’s the deal…
Ray Butts made a tape deck with a record and playback head that utilized a tape loop. It was one speed and the heads were not movable and the whole thing sat in the bottom of his Echosonic amp.
Since the heads didn’t move and there was only one speed it produced an unvaried but quick echo, the “slapback” used most notably by Scotty Moore and to some extent Chet Atkins (Mr Sandman). “Slapback” is just a term meaning a quick repeating echo.
From there it was a logical move to design a portable unit with a preamp and a playback head that moved on a rail. This allowed the user to extend the delay from the slapback to more controlled gaps and a more pronounced echo like Chet’s ‘Blue Ocean Echo’ and ‘Snowbird’. The Echoplex pretty much ruled the roost in this department although other units came and went in the sixties and seventies.
Add to this two controls. One is a volume control for the playback head so you could vary the volume of the playback and another control to allow the played back note to be fed back into the record circuit for multiple repeats.
Ergo echo and delay are two parts of the same critter.
The tape units need more maintenance, head cleaning, tape replacement and the annoying ‘pop’ of the splice as the tape made its circuit.
The modern digital boxes do all of the above without all the foolishness of the tape.
Reverb is usually done with a metal tray containing two springs under mild tension. At each end of the springs are sensors very much like phonograph cartridges and the musical signal is fed through one sensor. The signal (now mechanical) travels down the springs and is picked up by the other sensor and run through the amp.
Reverb is what you get.
For the record, most of Chet’s echo was done at home using a reel to reel tape deck. He used various units on the road to replicate his recorded sounds.
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Jul 7, 2008 10:52 a.m. MBL:
A little known fact about Ray Butts' design of the EchoSonic. In his patent, he actually had an adjustable head to change delay times. This did not make it to any "production" models that I know of. Tim MBL
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Jul 7, 2008 10:36 p.m. BillyZoom:
Old Studio Stuff: In studio terminology, both reverb and slap are considered echo, whether it's from a spring, plate, room, time cube, tape machine, or hallway. All of the tape echo you hear on the old records was added in the control room using a tape recorder. Reverb in the studio was either a "chamber", which is a little room with a speaker and a mic in it, or they used a plate reverb, which is a sheet of stainless steel or gold foil, with a driver and a pickup. A plate is usually about the size of a double or queen-size bed on it's side. Slap is the repeat you get when you assign an echo send to a tape recorder, and then return the tape output to a channel on the board. Any 3 head recorder will do this without any modification. It just happens naturally. A round robin is what you get if you then turn up the echo send on that channel to get multiple repeats. An echo send is what they now call an aux send. Almost all of the old recordings have the same exact delay time because they all used Ampex recorders. The length of the delay is the time it takes the tape to go from the record head to the playback head. The tape speed was always 15 1/2 inches per second. 30ips will give you a double, but not a slap. Different brands of recorders will have different head spacing, but in the old days American studios were almost all Ampex. BZ
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Jul 13, 2008 9:26 a.m. atomicwash:
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Jul 13, 2008 10:04 a.m. mauser:
I remember Daune giving an interview to a Friday night diner show on XM and he explained that some of his reverb/echo was done in a tank. Brian Setzer in his notes on "Rockabilly Riot," said he did something like that on a few tracks.
As for echo and reverb, I use both heavily. My echoplex is a danelectro Reel Echo with my tempo light looking like it's trying to dim due to me having the delay on the verge of hearing a repeat. As for the number of repeats, the dial is tuned to the ten o'clock; about four close to five looking at it from a Fender dial point of view. Mix sets around the same.
My reverb hovers around a four or five, sometimes shooting to a seven if I want more a slap-back through the springs.
Whereas the difference between a reverb slap-back and an echoplex slap-back. An echoplex offers a clean very quick repeat, sometimes making the note sound a tiny bit longer from the initial strum (unless muted, but still sounds clean). Reverb slap-back, as stated from Pseudo Man, rolls off the lower end, creating a high pitched shimmer that has the quickness of a slap-back.
Two songs come to mind to differentiate reverb from an Echoplex.
"Sleepwalk," by Brian Setzer due to him slowing the tempo from his normal slap-back.
"Pipeline," by The Chantays for the reverb, (and if I'm not mistaken, the reverb kick at the beginning).
