Crazy, man. Check this out: http://www.ztamplifiers.com 125w RMS from an amp the size of a lunchbox! $289! Good reviews on Harmony Central, although only 3 up so far. They're not that far away from me. Maybe I'll drop by sometime.
ZT Lunchbox Amplifier!
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- Rated: 36 ↑
Apr 20, 2009 2:13 a.m. rhcole:
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- Rated: 36 ↑
Apr 20, 2009 2:29 a.m. rhcole:
Mmmmm. Just looked at their whitepaper. No surprise, but it doesn't appear that there is any bass efficiency below about 200hz.
My guess would be very loud and midrangey.
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- Rated: 29 ↑
Apr 28, 2009 6:57 p.m. giffenf:
rhcole: You called it. I have one, and it is indeed loud and midrangey all by itself, but I've found two ways so far to make it sound much better: 1) plugging into a 1-12" cabinet, in my case, a Blackheart, which I believe has an Eminence 12" in it. Brings up the low end nicely. 2) and this one surprised me, I plugged my guitar into a Boss ME-70 with the preamp sims turned on, then into the Lunchbox, and the Clean setting with the EQ set flat warms it up like I couldn't believe. Gives it a good boost, too, which it doesn't really need, but it works for me. I'm going to try it out at the next jam on Thursday and see how it fares.
FG
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- Rated: 98 ↑
Apr 29, 2009 9:18 a.m. sassy:
Do they make a PB & J model
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- Rated: 33 ↑
Apr 29, 2009 9:35 a.m. Ellengtrgrl:
I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that it's running a form of pulse width or switching biasing like Class E or Class F (like the Crate Power Block), instead of the more usual Class A, and Class AB1 & Class AB2 we're used to seeing for guitar amps. I've seen these types of amps before in ham radio. I belong to an online group of ham radio enthusiasts, and a couple of the members who are broadcast, audio, and electrical engineers, have developed Class D and Class biased E radios that pump out over 700 watts that are about the size of a Stephen King novel. They aren't even 1/5 the size of radios that put out 1/8 the power.
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- Rated: 14 ↑
Apr 29, 2009 9:41 a.m. RhythmMax:
Hey Giffenf - How's the clean headroom? RhythmMax
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- Rated: 29 ↑
May 1, 2009 9:12 a.m. giffenf:
Hi, RhythmMax. You can get plenty of clean headroom just by not cranking the Drive control, but an awful lot of its volume comes from adding in the Drive. I used it in a jam for the first time last night, and I needed to put the Level control most of the way up to be heard over the other 3 guitar players, bass player, and drummer, but pushing the Drive anywhere past 9:00 made it cut through with ease, and it doesn't really start breaking up until you get it past 10:00 or 11:00. And when I kicked in the preamp pedal on the ME-70, it started breathing fire, meaning it was impressively freakin' loud. Comments from the other players included "That's just STUPID that's so loud for that size," "Can I play through it for a while?," and of course "You really should put a Scooby Doo graphic on the grille." They laughed when I brought it in: "Are you going to mic that thing or what?" And then I turned it on.
I brought my Blackheart 1-12" cabinet, but never bothered to plug it in. It would have helped out the low end, but since we were playin' country twang all night, it wasn't all that noticeable. Just for fun I plugged my acoustic into it and turned down the drive for a couple of songs, and it sounded OK, but hardly ideal.
Speaking of breathing fire, after it had been on for about 2 1/2 hours and we started packing up, I reached behind it for the power switch and damn near burned my finger because the back plate was so hot. I guess those watts have to go somewhere.
I'm not aware of a PB&J model, but they're working on a bass version, according to the ZT guy I talked with at the NAMM Show. No ship date announced for it yet.
FG
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- Rated: 1 ↑
May 13, 2009 3:39 p.m. hotrod_man:
I just got mine about two weeks ago. Man this little amp really kicks! I play my BS Hotrod with tv jones and it sounds awesome! Just like giffenf said keep the drive a little lower and it stays clean with more headroom. There's plenty of volume for gigs and sounds great. My Tele sounds good with too. Best part is that it is about the price of a good pedal. By itself the midrange is pronounced but with a band you do not miss below the 200hz. I like it.
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- Rated: 29 ↑
May 13, 2009 4:54 p.m. giffenf:
I emailed the mfr and told them about my jam experience, and they quoted me on their web site! (Click here and scroll most of the way down).
I took it to a bar gig on Monday and played my Rev Pete Anderson through it, the audience (all guitar players or spouses thereof) was amazed. Then I let someone else play my guitar through it so I could hear it and day-umn, that guitar with that amp sounds downright good. Afterwards I threw it in the bag with my pedals, and made it to the car with it and two guitars in one trip. I'm lovin' it.
FG
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- Rated: 90 ↑
May 13, 2009 5:01 p.m. Walter Broes:
I'm getting one of those things as soon as they turn up over here - something the size of a lunchbox that's loud enough to rehearse with and cheaper than a lot of pedals seems like a total no-brainer.
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- Rated: 1 ↑
May 13, 2009 6:12 p.m. hotrod_man:
You can get one online and have it shipped acrossed. It is a VERY cool little amp and it is very deceiving to look at. I really love mine
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- Rated: 46 ↑
May 13, 2009 6:43 p.m. MacStevenXIII:
Sounds like it would be a nice harp amp too.
Check out this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMgcv4fElvc
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- Rated: 1 ↑
May 18, 2009 10:05 p.m. kenkantor:
Ellen, I'll take that bet! (Probably not quite ethical though...)
The ZT Lunchbox output stage is a bridged, Class AB configuration. Similarly, the main supply is your basic, unregulated, xformer-bridge-cap.
I've done a fair amount of Class D design work over the years. Fun stuff! It's great for efficiency, but I found it very difficult to get what I wanted, in terms of optimum clipping behavior and over-drive signal dynamics for a guitar amp.
Of course, some of this could be modeled with DSP, but then you run into a different set of problems.-k
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- Rated: 36 ↑
May 18, 2009 10:58 p.m. rhcole:
Ken,
I sent you email a few weeks ago through your website but never got a reply. Any chance for the same amp with (say) an 8 or 10" driver for a bit more bass?
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- Rated: 1 ↑
May 18, 2009 11:07 p.m. kenkantor:
Hi.
Sorry. I don't know what the problem with the email is. However, my personal address is kkantor@gmail.com. You can always try that, if you need to be sure the message reaches me.
Yes, eventually we might do a larger model. At the moment, the small size seems to be a major selling and differentiation point with our users. Of course, that means some tradeoff in the bass. How much bigger could we go, in your opinion, before we became "me too?"
-k
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- Rated: 36 ↑
May 19, 2009 12:04 a.m. rhcole:
Ken,
Very smart reply. BTW, as I write this your website is down.
Truthfully, I'd say an 8" driver that gets enough bottom for a moderate volume jazz, country, or blues gig would be the cutoff point before you start to lose your product differentiation. You're right, a 125w amp with a 10" plus speaker has been done by others. But, you have more than just size going for you, your product is also very reasonably priced. Also a larger box would give better heat dissipation as well.
If you had the same power, an 8" speaker, lets say shoe box size instead of lunch box and an under $500 price, you could really punch it out with the Jazzkats, Polytones and Rolands of the world.
Of course, it would need to sound good...
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- Rated: 1 ↑
May 19, 2009 10:15 a.m. hotrod_man:
rhcole- I tried my Lunchbox with my Gretsch and my 175 and it sounded great straight up. Then I decided to try it with my little graphic EQ to dial out a little mids (500hz) and push up a little bottom (125hz). The amp sounded much bigger and the 6.5" speaker sounded like a 10" or something. Worth a shot...
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- Rated: 1 ↑
May 19, 2009 1:16 p.m. kenkantor:
Great feedback, thanks! It might be possible to do an 8" that would be almost the same size. Forgot to ask:
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Bass is also related to max spl. Would you be willing to give up maybe 6 dB of max output to get a warmer, deeper sound?
Website is going through an upgrade. Shouldn't have taken it offline, though. I will call the programmer. Thx.
-k
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- Rated: 14 ↑
May 19, 2009 1:31 p.m. RhythmMax:
Hi to Ken and all GDPers -
My Lunchbox arrived about a week ago. I will be using it out for the first time tomororrow. It's a jazz group consisting of five guitars, piano, bass and drums. I'll be using my Gretsch Country Club. So far, the amp has sounded pretty good around the house. I have a couple of quibbles but I'll see if they have any merit after I use the amp in a working situation. More to follow.... -
- Rated: 1 ↑
May 19, 2009 2:36 p.m. hotrod_man:
Ken- I would not want to give up 6db output in favor of a larger speaker and a little warmth or depth. It is awesome the way it is! A little 6 band EQ pedal will warm it up as I said above. Great little amp! There was a great review online about it.
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- Rated: 36 ↑
May 20, 2009 12:13 a.m. rhcole:
Ken,
In my professional life I advise entrepreneurs and startups with new ideas and technology. Here are my comments from that part of my brain:
What you have at present is a product that is being purchased by "early adopters" for the cool feature of having the smallest amp on the block with gigable volume. As your user base increases the novelty element of your product will eventually decline, and your primary market will be players with serious size and weight constraints as their main consideration in purchasing an amp. That is, at present you are being evaluated by whether your product sounds acceptable FOR ITS SIZE AND PRICE, not whether it genuinely is expected to compete with, say, a Peavey selling for $400 with a 12" speaker. But, the day will come when somebody compares you head-on with a Roland Cube 80 and decides whether the lighter weight and portability are worth the trade-offs in sound quality. Get ready.
You will want to decide what your next move is- do you want to be known as the company that makes itty bitty amps that don't suck? Do you intend to move into more traditional amp design and sales (a tough field that is already very crowded)? You've got everybody's attention; what you do next will be critical in defining your place in the industry.
Even though your initial product is very inexpensive, you do have the move of offering an upgraded product that costs more but offers additional features and/or quality in a very small package. This is a space that Bose has ruled for decades. Jazzkat amps use 8" speakers for 3 to 4 times the price of what you have. You should be able to have a version that jazz players like, because they are friendlier to small solid state amps with little speakers.
I do suggest that you could benefit by designing towards offering products that, despite being small, offer little or no compromise in performance. Hotrod above suggests using an outboard EQ, but I think that is not something that a broader market of players will have the patience for. You can survey the best selling pedals to get a feel for what guitar players as a group are willing to purchase as expected add-on pedals. These tend to be overdrive, distortion, delay, and then upgraded boutique pedals for things such as tremelo, reverb, and chorus. I'm not sure most players would want to have to buy a separate EQ pedal to make your amp sound good. Therefore, even with your current footprint I suggest offering a bass boost or EQ switch, even if it degrades SPL. A player can choose to turn it off, no worries.
Finally, I hope your amp has an orange sticker on the back that says: WARNING- this product becomes VERY HOT! Keep away from flammable materials and DO NOT TOUCH after extended operations!... I'd hate you to lose everything from a lawsuit.
Best if luck to you, I'm a fan of the concept!
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- Rated: 1 ↑
May 20, 2009 9:36 a.m. hotrod_man:
Hmmmm, players add pedals to amps all the time. Overdrives if it is a one channel amp, reverbs if the amp does not have reverb, etc. Adding an relatively inexpensive eq pedal to a pedalboard is a simple tool to tailor your sound with any amp. Lots of players use them. That's not to say that the amp needs one. It was just a suggestion to dial in a personal sound with the design the way it is.
As far as the novelty factor is concerned, this is a great sounding and feeling amp no matter what the size. Sounds excellent on gigs indoors and outdoors, large and small venues as well as in the studio. Whatever about the size. You have to listen with your ears, not eyes.
The Lunchbox is what it is and does not have to be a jazzcat or roland or whatever. It's a ZT and it is a wonderful tool for working guitar players that have gigs and sessions. It also sounds great in the mix of a multi-amp rig!
And finally I have had my Lunchbox's on many gigs and sessions. They do not get that hot at all, not even the large "heat sink" back panel. My tweeds get much hotter so there is nothing to fear. Yours may have an issue of it gets that hot.
It is a great amp and I play the crap out of mine!!!!
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- Rated: 29 ↑
May 21, 2009 8:50 a.m. giffenf:
I'd like to take back a little of my comment about the amp getting really hot after being on for 2.5 hours. Yes, it got hot, but saying I "damn near burned my finger" was a guitar-player exaggeration, a perception exacerbated by the temperature change experienced by setting down a cold beer bottle and then touching the back panel of the amp. Like hotrod_man says, it doesn't get that hot, and certainly doesn't need a warning sticker. Subsequent extended periods of use without beer have not caused any undue heat generation as far as I can tell.
FG
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- Rated: 11 ↑
May 21, 2009 4:07 p.m. soundjunkie:
It's a bologna sandwich amp and it sucks......it's made in China! Wake up traitors! Give me a Chinese made Fender instead.
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- Rated: 77 ↑
May 21, 2009 4:58 p.m. roadjunkie:
I'm only saying this because I don't want to see AJ barred by the Chinese government from veiwing this site but could we avoid slamming China. They will ban him if they see they are getting trashed on this site. Thx
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