Other Amps

Reverb Andy’s Tube-DR vs ToneMaster Demo

51

"Getting the same sound at various volumes would be amazing. Though I do still wonder about how exciting playing an amp at conversation levels could be."

That's why I tried the Roland, and it DOES. MUCH easier to get that sound at any volume level... no more "the right size amp for the job", the Roland IS the right size amp for ANY job. The only complaint I've read so far about these Fender amps, by people who have actually played them, is they aren't fond of the attenuator on the back... have to hear more reviews about that.

Altho conversation-level amps are NEVER exciting to play, I don't care who makes them, and if they have tubes or not.

52

In case anyone was seriously wondering how hard it is to take the Tone Master plate off......

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In case anyone was seriously wondering how hard it is to take the Tone Master plate off......

– Devil's Tool

Was it the wonky 's' that worried you?

54

In case anyone was seriously wondering how hard it is to take the Tone Master plate off......

– Devil's Tool

Was it the wonky 's' that worried you?

55

Was it the wonky 's' that worried you?

– Vince_Ray

Ha! Not so much.

I pull the Fender logo off my amps (I like the clean grille look) so pulling off the Tonemaster plate was in the plan anyway.

I'm also playing two gigs in two dive bars this weekend and would rather not advertise that I have a brand new, very lightweight amp that would be easy to "lift".

56

I'm also playing two gigs in two dive bars this weekend and would rather not advertise that I have a brand new, very lightweight amp that would be easy to "lift".

So you made it look like a pristine vintage blackface Deluxe Reverb? If I was up to no good, I'd much sooner steal thàt than the computer!!

57

I'm also playing two gigs in two dive bars this weekend and would rather not advertise that I have a brand new, very lightweight amp that would be easy to "lift".

So you made it look like a pristine vintage blackface Deluxe Reverb? If I was up to no good, I'd much sooner steal thàt than the computer!!

– WB

.

58

I'm also playing two gigs in two dive bars this weekend and would rather not advertise that I have a brand new, very lightweight amp that would be easy to "lift".

So you made it look like a pristine vintage blackface Deluxe Reverb? If I was up to no good, I'd much sooner steal thàt than the computer!!

– WB

.

60

There's cranked and cranked - BF amps don't sound that great on ten, but a Super Reverb at about six or seven on the volume knob is a thing of beauty IMO - that was my rig for over a decade.

In a Gretsch context, The Rev Horton Heat used a Super Reverb for years, not all too clean or quiet either.

– WB

yes! With those CTS speakers and most likely his Gibson not a Gretsch until just recent.

61

Haha! "Until just recent" as in just 20 years ago?

I was interested to see RHH last year locally and he had two amps with him - I suspect they were probably hired because Perth is a long way to bring an amp, especially one on the wrong voltage. He was switching between two (I think) Deluxe Reverb RIs and having lots of problems with them both. There were some looong pauses between songs and lots of pink drinks being consumed. Looked like petrol.

Maybe if he had a "Tone Master" Deluxe Reverb he would have been ok. Despite all his problems he still sounded like RHH. Fab.

62

I played with him last year and he used a Quiltter that he'd brought with him. The previous visit had been a black face Deluxe. Said his fave was the Gretsch Executive though, just too big for the plane!

63

Plus he does solo shows with a little digital Vox so he is open minded

64

So now, assuming the Tonemasters meet with generally positive acceptance, I'm wondering what the next move will be.

Will Fender release TM versions off all their most popular amps?

Will the tech eventually evolve to where the amount of processing power needed here to really nail the sound of one amp, will fit in a smaller space, allowing Fender to offer a TM amp that models various models of Fender amps? Switch between Deluxe Reverb, Twin, Bassman, Princeton, Champ, etc.

Will Vox come out with a "TM" version that nails the Vox AC30/15 sound in a similar way. Same with Marshall, etc.

Will there eventually be a Swiss Army amp, where this kind of advanced modeling will allow us to switch between classic Fender amps, classic Voxes, classic Marshalls, etc?

65

Will the tech eventually evolve to where the amount of processing power needed here to really nail the sound of one amp, will fit in a smaller space

That point came years ago. From some perspectives, Fender is cheating us by offering only ONE model in these amps. (But I get why, and think it's a great idea.)

Will Vox come out with a "TM" version that nails the Vox AC30/15 sound in a similar way.

Vox was very early with excellent models of their amps, though they left them in pedal form for external amplification.

Will there eventually be a Swiss Army amp, where this kind of advanced modeling will allow us to switch between classic Fender amps, classic Voxes, classic Marshalls, etc?

Line6 led the way with that tech 15-20 years ago, and many others have jumped in. The current Helix tech from L6 is stunning (though without onboard amplification), and Kemper's Profiler is astonishing - and comes in a version with onboard amp, just needing a speaker cab. Both are smaller than a head version (which doesn't yet exist) of either of the Fender ToneMasters.

Hotone has two "amp pedals", both with a pair of very convincing amp models (one with Vox and Marshall, the other with Fender and Boogie), with 75 watts output and cab simulation. They're smaller than a Klon; plug in a speaker cab and you're gone. AND Hotone's Ampero has dozens of amp models AND effects, with 9 slots to arrange your pedals and amps, footswitches to call up configurations, and a vol/wah pedal. It's 12.5" x 5.5" and 2" tall. No amp built in, though.

This tech is already so good that you can dial up dozens of "authentic" amps from a small, light box. The psychological experience is different, though. While your ears behold a stack, or an old Valco cruncher, or a Bassman, or whatever...your eyes and nose keep reminding you it's not "real," so you discount the voodoo and call it a substitute. The parts of the amp experience we hear with our eyes (and feel with our sense of touch) seem missing.

Until the modelers are run through the appropriate cabinets, and the amps themselves are hidden - and then, in blind listening/playing tests, experienced players can't tell the difference.

What's new about Fender's approach is not that the modeling is good, but that they're limiting the available options and optimizing ONE model end-to-end in order to take out the guesswork and variations - providing the "right" speaker, physical form factor, and visuals.

Other makers have heretofore operated under the assumption that more is better, and left it up to end users to amplify transparently and configure speaker cabs (or output into PA or interface). They're now going to start thinking they were working too hard.

If Vox, Marshall, et al start to deliver one-amp (or even multi-amp, but within their brand) versions, it will be a step backwards. It will also be fabulously profitable for them, even when prices on hardware-light single-double digital amps fall with competition. That will help make digital the norm, and they can crank up the prices on tube amps to seal the deal - AND make those amps more profitable as well.

66

Zoooooom! Remember them pedals? Plus, how about when a pal plays you his latest home recorded track, fresh off his DAW. How does the guitar sound if he mic'd up his tube amp at a friendly volume....or plugged in the amp sim output from his new Tone Master? Which would give the best results?

67

Well with all of the digital modelling amps with a gazillion options you (or at least I) end up using just one or two settings. So it makes sense to make a Deluxe Reverb which is just a Deluxe Reverb. Totally get it, think it's a great idea.

I hope the next stage is being able to digitally tweak them like you can do with tube amps. I got into amp building specifically to make my "ideal" amp, and now that I've got as close as I can I don't want to go back to stock! I love the sound of tweed amps but not the flabby low end that comes with the overdriven sound. So rather than be stuck with a dead-on perfect rendition of the original amp, warts and all, I hope they can use that as a starting point and allow you to tweak things to suit. I'm sure it can be done.

Imagine a tweed Deluxe which morphed into a plexi as you turned the gain up? I use EL34s/KT77s in a lot of my tweeds to increase the midrange slightly and it sounds great - That's the sort of thing I would love to be able to recreate if I had a digital amp. Or a more powerful power transformer to help the bass strings retain their definition. I would imagine that crafting an ideal guitar sound would in some ways be easier in the digital realm.

68

I would imagine that crafting an ideal guitar sound would in some ways be easier in the digital realm.

Yes - if you know exactly what you're after. I don't - I just (sometimes) know what I like when I hear it, so Trial-n-Error R me.

This works very well. https://www.positivegrid.co... If you don't have it on your iPad, I can't imagine you wouldn't have a blast with it. (But yer needs a good interface.)

69

Haha! "Until just recent" as in just 20 years ago?

I was interested to see RHH last year locally and he had two amps with him - I suspect they were probably hired because Perth is a long way to bring an amp, especially one on the wrong voltage. He was switching between two (I think) Deluxe Reverb RIs and having lots of problems with them both. There were some looong pauses between songs and lots of pink drinks being consumed. Looked like petrol.

Maybe if he had a "Tone Master" Deluxe Reverb he would have been ok. Despite all his problems he still sounded like RHH. Fab.

– JimmyR

Youre speaking into his live performance but most who hang on his recorded tone are gonna bet he is mic'ing up his favorite amp and guitar. A few yrs back he was switching between his gretsch and the gibson at the anaheim HOB and the gibson sounded more like the albums.

70

The idea of a TM amp that does everything wont work imo. I’m sure the they could up the processing power to do it but what about speaker configurations and cab size? It’s kind of a package deal

71

So I just came home from recording some tunes and the same same same old thing happened. We mic'd up the groovy 25w valve amp with a couple of mics and also took a direct out from my Boss Tuner into my Vibro Champ XD...and then back into the recorder. And as usual, the DI from the Vibro Champ worked best. Easily. It leaves me wondering....why oh why doesn't my amp record and sound the way it does in the room? And THAT'S the strength of using processed signals that have already been made to sound cool.

72

,,,and that's why these amps work for folks

73

What song is Andy playing at the beginning of the video?

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What song is Andy playing at the beginning of the video?

– Bryan K.

“Hateful” by The Clash, off of London Calling album.

75

Tube modeling is getting better and better. You need very fast computer systems so the player won’t feel any lag. That is killing. And the algorithm should get the half crunch right to get the right hand response. A constant distortion level sounds really cheap and annoying. The first time I heard it all working was with various software for PC. Then the latest generation of the Blues Cube got it right. This Tone Master got it right and also mimics an existing characteristic. A class D amp is nothing but a big fat pump of clean sound: all sound shaping and internal feedback emulation must be handled by the emulator. I think it is very well possible to build the perfect fake tube amp. That you won’t know. Render power and algorithm are key. Denial is futile. But like BZ always says, wait until it breaks down. Chances it can be fixed are very slim.


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