Other Amps

peavey delta blues 115 too loud

1

Question about treble bleeds...

TV Jones site offers a pre-assembled 500k treble bleed audio taper pot with a 150k resistor for $13.50.

Are the orange drop (Vishay/Sprague) capacitors on these .001 mf?

The site also lists other values: .012mf .022mf .0039mf

What would these other values impart to the tone if they were used instead of the .001 value? Thanks.

2

The .001uf cap is the only practical value on the website for a treble bleed.

The other caps are for other applications:

.012uf is the deep mud cap for a tone switch.

.0039uf is the shallow mud cap for a tone switch.

.022uf is the classic cap used in most guitar tone pot setups.

.033uf and .047uf are not on the TVJones site, but are also used in some guitars with a tone pot - but .022uf is by far the most common.

For a treble bleed, any of the caps above, except for the .001uf, would bleed far to much signal through to be effective at balancing the tone as you drop volume.

The 150K resistor can actually be used without the cap to jyst soften the taper of the pot and make a more usable volume control (without the precipitous drop between "10" and "8").

Some guys report remarkably different results with these components, but I have found them to be rather consistent in their effect with typical-impedance pickups.

3

I buy a lot of my passive components for tube amp builds/repairs from newark.com. I've noticed references to my searches, that many of the selections are available thru Farnell UK Direct, which leads me to believe that if I were in the UK I should be sourcing my requests thru uk.farnell.com

4

Chrisp...Thanks for the info. For my uses and limited knowledge.. I'm want to purchase a tone pot - to replace my "mud switch" which I don't want. Then, I'd like to simply buy the entire 500k pre-assembled treble bleed pot from TV Jones.

So, the .001 orange drop capacitor would go onto my master volume's pot, with the 150k resistor?

Why are both used together on this pot from TV Jones? See: 500k audio taper pot, solid-shaft, treble-bleed

What does each component do to the signal? - Sorry, I'm still learning. Thanks.

5

Two separate things:

Replacing a tone switch with a tone pot.

Adding a treble bleed to a volume control.

To replace the tone switch with a tone pot, you need a 500KA pot and a .02uf cap.

Disconnect the tone switch and associated caps (.0039 and .012), and wire in the tone pot and cap per the usual method - see schematics at a number of online sources.

You'll need to also deal with locating the pot on the guitar - often requiring drilling.

For the treble bleed:

The .001uf cap is wired in parallel with a 150k resistor and these then bridge the hot end of the volume pot and the center wiper. (If this sounds confusing then I suggest having someone do it for you.

What does each component do to the signal?

First read this:

http://www.geofex.com/artic...

It may seem a long article, but it is faster than re-creating it here as a post.

(tick-tock,....)

OK, now on the treble bleed:

The .001uf cap allows some high frequencies to pass through as the volume is turned down. A smaller cap would pass only very high frequencies and a larger cap would pass frequencies down into the upper mids.

So .001uf it is.

BUT,

Some people feel that the cap makes things a bit thin sounding as you turn down the volume, and that a different cap value just gives you different troubles.

Sooooooo,...

The 150K resistor also lets some lower frequencies pass though along with the highs that go through the cap. In TVJones opinion, this combo (.001uf and 150K Ohms) makes for a pleasing balance as you drop the volume.

Some disagree and choose to change or even eliminate the resistor.

You could also add a second resistor in series with the cap, then run the cap and second resistor in parallel with the original resistor. This gives even finer control over the taper of the pot and the frequency response as you use the pot.

6

Chrisp, much thanks, I'll keep reading. However, I have one question with regards to the tone knob, - replacing the current "mud switch".

Why do I even need a .02uf cap to go onto the pot? Why can't I just pull out the switch, and put a 500 k pot in there?

What do I need that .02 cap for?

Chrisp said: Disconnect the tone switch and associated caps (.0039 and .012), and wire in the tone pot and cap per the usual method - see schematics at a number of online sources

Is there any place in particular where I can find this - I've searched a number of times for Jet Firebird tone pot, etc.. didn't find much. Any links you of. Much thanks Chrisp.

7

Why do I even need a .02uf cap to go onto the pot? Why can't I just pull out the switch, and put a 500 k pot in there?

A few reasons.

The switch uses 2 caps. So one has to go anyway.

The useful range of the knob in a tone pot would be extremely limited with the .0039uf cap. So that is out.

The useful range of the knob in a tone pot would be still rather limited with the .012uf cap. So, while that would work, it might be better to go up to .02uf so that you get a good amount of subtle control from 10 to 6, then get into some serious roll-off as you go down from there.

Some guitars go up to .047uf, and Howard Roberts, guitar tinkerer and session-man extraordinaire often used .033uf.

I have a .047uf cap on the neck PU tone control, and .022uf on the bridge tone contro on my Guild X-180 and it sounds perfect. Just the right roll off for this maple topped box.

At the risk of sounding a little rude, these are pretty easy to find with a bit of looking:

http://www.gretschguitars.c...

http://www.gretschguitars.c...

8

Chrisp, thanks, yes, I've downloaded both of those PDF's. I guess what I'm trying to understand, is the comparison between my 2005 Firebird with the 3 way tone selector, and my friend's pre fender duo jet (2003 I think).

His duo jet has 2 volumes, a Master Volume, and a tone knob. I personally found his a bit more useful than mine - that is, he can roll back his tone slightly to avoid some of the top end bite he gets when playing through the bridge only - bridge volume on full, and through a Marshall Vintage Modern on a very classic rock gain setting.

I'm looking for Malcolm Young's tone with my Gretsch. I've purchased a TV Jones Classic Plus for the bridge (rated at 7.79 ohms resistance) I believe. My Firebird's bridge was measured with a multi-meter and is only putting out 4.6 ohms - not quite hot enough for Malcolm's tone.

Basically, I want simplicity. I can't really see how the mud switch is handy for me. I only seem to like the tone in the middle (wide open) setting. The other 2 settings are unusable to me.

With that in mind, what's the best solution for me? In other words, what's in his tone knob, VS my tone switch? - Again, thanks.

9

NP,

There are many variables in tone, which probably contributes to the charlatanism in the "tone industry".

So, as un-mystical as this sounds, get rid of the unused tone switch circuitry and put in a tone pot. It will give you some subtle control that may well work for you. If it does not, then come back with specific things you do not like and we can take it from there.

You'll need to also deal with locating the pot on the guitar - often requiring drilling.

To replace the tone switch with a tone pot, you need a 500KA pot and a .02uf cap.

Disconnect the tone switch and associated caps (.0039 and .012), and wire in the tone pot and cap per the usual method -

Use this schematic:

http://www.gretschguitars.c...

Actually you can leave the tone switch in there if you want. It does no harm in the middle position.

10

Chrisp, much thanks. One question though if you don't mind...

Chrisp said: You'll need to also deal with locating the pot on the guitar - often requiring drilling.

Can't I simply pull out the tone switch component, and replace it with a tone pot, or are the holes not the same? - which requires drilling?

Again, thank you.

11

The holes are very likely to be different sizes - the switch hole will be bigger.

Also, the upper bout is an unusual (but possibly just fine for you) locale for a tone control pot.

To use a pot in the switch hole, you will need to either glue in a spacer, or use three components (spacer with washers on each side).

There may be other solutions that guys have used, so maybe others will chime in?

And a thought (such as it is):

MANY players end up with just one or two tone pot adjustments that they actually use. If that is the case, then you can leave the whole tone switch in place and just have each of the two "on" positions use both a cap and a resistor. That way you can duplicate two tone knob positions, but do it with a switch.

Blathering on,...

Keep the tone caps you have and add a 250 or 500K trim pot, set up as rheostat (just Google it) between each cap and ground.

Then play while tweaking each trim pot into a useful setting. And now you have two useful switch positions.

But if you want continuously variable roll-off, then a pot is the way to go.

12

Chrisp, thanks again. I wish someone who knew what they were doing - having already done this would post a "how to". I'm sure I'm not alone here.

The other issue is, I can pay my guitar tech to do it, but I'm getting that "depending on how complicated etc". And, other people here have said, "why don't you learn to do it yourself".

I have to start somewhere, and I'm not interested in understanding all the complexities of circuits, only the issues that concern me - as I need them. It seems so hit and miss, and archaic at times. I've just found it frustrating with some of the other members who've said "keep your tone switch, it's liberating" etc. I really don't think so. I'd rather have a tone knob, or simply remove the caps in there and have it wide open all the time.

Is there a book that actually shows a beginner how to do this kind of stuff?

Example: To change a tone switch to a tone pot, you need these items and tools, capacitors and resistors etc. Here's step 1.

13

This is an ontological question in my opinion.

Rather than launch into a long dull post:

I do not know of such a book.

EDIT: I hope you get good input from others on this.

14

Chrisp, last one for a while, and maybe this will help me out..

IF, I pulled out the tone knob on my friend's 2003 duo jet, what would I find visually, compared to my Firebird?

Would it be easier for me to pull out his tone pot, look at what's physically on it, and then replicate the same thing on mine? Would his duo jet have a rheostat on it right now? If it doesn't why would I need one? I just assumed that an audio taper pot - IS variable by nature of what it is.

If I order an audio taper pot from TV Jones here: 500K audio taper pot

then, where would I find a rheostat? Thanks again

15

NP,

I really think you need someone to do this for you. No offense, but this is not a good idea for you to do, and we are getting nowhere here.

I 'm going to back off this thread now, and very much suggest that you get someone to take care of this.

O-O

17

Question about treble bleeds...

TV Jones site offers a pre-assembled 500k treble bleed audio taper pot with a 150k resistor for $13.50.

Are the orange drop (Vishay/Sprague) capacitors on these .001 mf?

The site also lists other values: .012mf .022mf .0039mf

What would these other values impart to the tone if they were used instead of the .001 value? Thanks.

18

The .001uf cap is the only practical value on the website for a treble bleed.

The other caps are for other applications:

.012uf is the deep mud cap for a tone switch.

.0039uf is the shallow mud cap for a tone switch.

.022uf is the classic cap used in most guitar tone pot setups.

.033uf and .047uf are not on the TVJones site, but are also used in some guitars with a tone pot - but .022uf is by far the most common.

For a treble bleed, any of the caps above, except for the .001uf, would bleed far to much signal through to be effective at balancing the tone as you drop volume.

The 150K resistor can actually be used without the cap to jyst soften the taper of the pot and make a more usable volume control (without the precipitous drop between "10" and "8").

Some guys report remarkably different results with these components, but I have found them to be rather consistent in their effect with typical-impedance pickups.

19

I buy a lot of my passive components for tube amp builds/repairs from newark.com. I've noticed references to my searches, that many of the selections are available thru Farnell UK Direct, which leads me to believe that if I were in the UK I should be sourcing my requests thru uk.farnell.com

20

Chrisp...Thanks for the info. For my uses and limited knowledge.. I'm want to purchase a tone pot - to replace my "mud switch" which I don't want. Then, I'd like to simply buy the entire 500k pre-assembled treble bleed pot from TV Jones.

So, the .001 orange drop capacitor would go onto my master volume's pot, with the 150k resistor?

Why are both used together on this pot from TV Jones? See: 500k audio taper pot, solid-shaft, treble-bleed

What does each component do to the signal? - Sorry, I'm still learning. Thanks.

21

Two separate things:

Replacing a tone switch with a tone pot.

Adding a treble bleed to a volume control.

To replace the tone switch with a tone pot, you need a 500KA pot and a .02uf cap.

Disconnect the tone switch and associated caps (.0039 and .012), and wire in the tone pot and cap per the usual method - see schematics at a number of online sources.

You'll need to also deal with locating the pot on the guitar - often requiring drilling.

For the treble bleed:

The .001uf cap is wired in parallel with a 150k resistor and these then bridge the hot end of the volume pot and the center wiper. (If this sounds confusing then I suggest having someone do it for you.

What does each component do to the signal?

First read this:

http://www.geofex.com/artic...

It may seem a long article, but it is faster than re-creating it here as a post.

(tick-tock,....)

OK, now on the treble bleed:

The .001uf cap allows some high frequencies to pass through as the volume is turned down. A smaller cap would pass only very high frequencies and a larger cap would pass frequencies down into the upper mids.

So .001uf it is.

BUT,

Some people feel that the cap makes things a bit thin sounding as you turn down the volume, and that a different cap value just gives you different troubles.

Sooooooo,...

The 150K resistor also lets some lower frequencies pass though along with the highs that go through the cap. In TVJones opinion, this combo (.001uf and 150K Ohms) makes for a pleasing balance as you drop the volume.

Some disagree and choose to change or even eliminate the resistor.

You could also add a second resistor in series with the cap, then run the cap and second resistor in parallel with the original resistor. This gives even finer control over the taper of the pot and the frequency response as you use the pot.

22

Chrisp, much thanks, I'll keep reading. However, I have one question with regards to the tone knob, - replacing the current "mud switch".

Why do I even need a .02uf cap to go onto the pot? Why can't I just pull out the switch, and put a 500 k pot in there?

What do I need that .02 cap for?

Chrisp said: Disconnect the tone switch and associated caps (.0039 and .012), and wire in the tone pot and cap per the usual method - see schematics at a number of online sources

Is there any place in particular where I can find this - I've searched a number of times for Jet Firebird tone pot, etc.. didn't find much. Any links you of. Much thanks Chrisp.

23

Why do I even need a .02uf cap to go onto the pot? Why can't I just pull out the switch, and put a 500 k pot in there?

A few reasons.

The switch uses 2 caps. So one has to go anyway.

The useful range of the knob in a tone pot would be extremely limited with the .0039uf cap. So that is out.

The useful range of the knob in a tone pot would be still rather limited with the .012uf cap. So, while that would work, it might be better to go up to .02uf so that you get a good amount of subtle control from 10 to 6, then get into some serious roll-off as you go down from there.

Some guitars go up to .047uf, and Howard Roberts, guitar tinkerer and session-man extraordinaire often used .033uf.

I have a .047uf cap on the neck PU tone control, and .022uf on the bridge tone contro on my Guild X-180 and it sounds perfect. Just the right roll off for this maple topped box.

At the risk of sounding a little rude, these are pretty easy to find with a bit of looking:

http://www.gretschguitars.c...

http://www.gretschguitars.c...

24

Chrisp, thanks, yes, I've downloaded both of those PDF's. I guess what I'm trying to understand, is the comparison between my 2005 Firebird with the 3 way tone selector, and my friend's pre fender duo jet (2003 I think).

His duo jet has 2 volumes, a Master Volume, and a tone knob. I personally found his a bit more useful than mine - that is, he can roll back his tone slightly to avoid some of the top end bite he gets when playing through the bridge only - bridge volume on full, and through a Marshall Vintage Modern on a very classic rock gain setting.

I'm looking for Malcolm Young's tone with my Gretsch. I've purchased a TV Jones Classic Plus for the bridge (rated at 7.79 ohms resistance) I believe. My Firebird's bridge was measured with a multi-meter and is only putting out 4.6 ohms - not quite hot enough for Malcolm's tone.

Basically, I want simplicity. I can't really see how the mud switch is handy for me. I only seem to like the tone in the middle (wide open) setting. The other 2 settings are unusable to me.

With that in mind, what's the best solution for me? In other words, what's in his tone knob, VS my tone switch? - Again, thanks.

25

NP,

There are many variables in tone, which probably contributes to the charlatanism in the "tone industry".

So, as un-mystical as this sounds, get rid of the unused tone switch circuitry and put in a tone pot. It will give you some subtle control that may well work for you. If it does not, then come back with specific things you do not like and we can take it from there.

You'll need to also deal with locating the pot on the guitar - often requiring drilling.

To replace the tone switch with a tone pot, you need a 500KA pot and a .02uf cap.

Disconnect the tone switch and associated caps (.0039 and .012), and wire in the tone pot and cap per the usual method -

Use this schematic:

http://www.gretschguitars.c...

Actually you can leave the tone switch in there if you want. It does no harm in the middle position.


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