Other Amps

Oldtime users Fender Amp Question

51

i have to ask if folks have tried to eliminate the ice-pick thing by rolling off treble on the amp or turning off that evil little Bright switch.

52

Mac, at least for me, the treble control covers too broad a frequency range to kill ice pick without killing twang. The larger brownface Fenders at least have a presence control, which is much better to use to control the ice pick.

53

Okay I have to say I really like the term "the Gretscherati"

54

Okay I have to say I really like the term "the Gretscherati"

– Suprdave

Lol!! Your avatar....

Someone just left Chicago ... with a Gretsch.

You didnt tell us you can walk on water.

Hows the wine situation ???

55

You guys make me cringe when you talk about JBL's. They were by far the best guitar speakers ever made, for any kind of music. Most of them today have the wrong cone kits, and you can't tell how wonderful they were with the correct cones.

56

You guys make me cringe when you talk about JBL's. They were by far the best guitar speakers ever made, for any kind of music. Most of them today have the wrong cone kits, and you can't tell how wonderful they were with the correct cones.

– Billy Zoom

Billy, is it still possible to get the correct recone kit for D130/D120 ?

Also Has there ever been 10" versions made of the D130/120

58

Nice thank you, Strange that I googled for 10" and couldnt find any, but you sure found it.

Just saw a video of Albert Collins with what seems definitely to be JBL. One of the shows with Lonnie Mac, he plays what seems to be a transistor fender amp, which is strange as he usually played Fender Super Reverb. The metallic domes are clearly visible. I found many examples and it seems to be a huge part of his trademark sound.

About every of my favorite guitarists used JBL, but as my original post explains, I avoided them due to a highscool band experience.

I just have to give them a try.

59

Lol!! Your avatar....

Someone just left Chicago ... with a Gretsch.

You didnt tell us you can walk on water.

Hows the wine situation ???

– retnev

The Pic was taken in the creek at the Nashville Roundup. You should come. It's a blast! Gretscherati needs to be on this year's T-Shirt.

61

I could tell by the clank I'd see a JBL behind Waylon before I ever saw it:

https://reverb.com/news/the...

(Scroll down to the Waylon performance - though the others are worth a watch too.)

(And times musta been mighty weird. TWO organs? A go-go dancin' red-mini-skirted organist? Mighty weird doubleneck back there. And the audio. Sounds like nothing but a room mic. Lays it down the way it was...)

62

Hi Dave, Awesome Photo, it really made my day!. Were the rest of the gang that lively too?

I am actually thinking of moving to Nashville. Not only for music, but I want to get away from the DC NVA area. Is becoming a royal pain. Sort of the equivalent of the "artistic central sahara district". Just "sand" as far as you can see with no artist ever visiting.

You of course can use "The Gretscheratti" if you have a spin on it or any use. Just send me a photo if you do. I coined it but you can mint it as you please.

How I see the world ever since I picked up a Gretsch. Seriously dangerous things, organizations and individuals in rising lethal order. Your avatar sort of reminded me of Paperotti - see link.

  • Spaghetti
  • JoeCarducci
  • Paperotti Link
  • Karate
  • Paperazzi
  • Illuminati
    and to top them all
  • Gretcheratti

The Gretsch crowd really is something different. 40 years ago my pastor used to say, "you dont change the book, the book changes you"

Well Gretches sort of work in a similar way.

You wont change a Gretsch, The Gretsch WILL change you. Whatever you try to do.

As we can clearly see you are already pretty possessed. Lol! Welcome to the Gretcheratti.

63

Proteus, thanks for the Waylon link. Never saw that one. I though I saw all Waylon videos, apparently not.

That is one freaky video. I dont get the Vulcan guitarist in the back, playing some sort of doubleneck starwars creation, dressed in a suit that I dont understand either...slowdancing a jig I never saw before. But it is priceless and truly outerworldly and a keeper for sure!

That is clearly one use of a 15" JBL. Amazing to compare that to what Chet Atkins did with the same speaker. Although I dont own one, I start to think that in the right hands it is a real cammelion of a speaker. Will get some soon.

64

Billy, is it still possible to get the correct recone kit for D130/D120 ?

Also Has there ever been 10" versions made of the D130/120

– retnev

No one has ever been able to replicate the D130 cone. Everything about those JBL's would be way too expensive for today's market. There were 10" D110's. They're great for vocals. So are D130's, but the 110's go out to 8K. D120's were really good too, but the D130 was the best. They had cast alloy baskets, curvalinear pulp cones, 4" edge-wound aluminum voice coils, and an 11 pound Alnico magnet. The curvalinear cones formed an exponential flare rather than a normal cone shape. D130's were originally designed as HiFi speakers, but they were wonderful for just about aveything. The D130 F had a slightly bigger coil gap, and an edgewound copper coil. This made it harder for guitar players to blow up, and only cost about 1db in efficiency. The D130 is louder with 12 watts than a good normal speaker is with 100 watts.

65

So...if most or all of the originals have timed out with material fatigue (or been badly reconed or otherwise lost to time), and there are no good re-coning kits, and no one makes an acceptable modern stand-in for original JBLs...

then, aside from referring to records (with who-knows-what treatment during the recording process) and basking in our clearly infallible golden audio memories of the best speakers ever made...

how is anyone in the present to really know how JBLs sounded and performed?

Or are they simply ever to remain an unattainable Aristotelian ideal, and another way for old guys to tell young guys "you have no idea"?

66

Billy Zoom , Proteus

Just when I thought I had my head around the JBLs, then all this amazing information again.

From what both you guys say, I guess the best strategy, if an all original is not available, is to buy a damaged original cone JBL rather than a reconed one.

It is really easy but a bit more expensive to professionally repair a damaged cone, although few people bother with it, but it seems that in the case of JBL it is the way to go.

Really great information thanks. I never knew that JBL speakers are this involved.

With Albert Collins I just see JBLs now. Here is another

It seems that whatever amp Collins plays there is always a silver dome, even if he plays solid state. Definitely a main ingredient in his tone.

I dont think I ever learned this much in a single user group thread. Again thanks to all who contributed.

If recone is the only option, What about authentic JBL recones from the 70's (JBL originasl cones) I have no clue if the 70s recones from JBL actually used the correct original cones the speakers came with or if they used something different during reconing.

67

JBL cones: D130's had paper surrounds, K130's and later had Cambric surrounds. The high compliance cambric is great for solid-state amps, which have very high damping factors. Tube guitar amps, which have little of no damping factor, need the stiffer surround. With cambric and a tube amp, the overshoot and back-EMF ruins the clarity and lowers the efficiency. It'll work, but you'll lose the JBL magic. Factory D series cones have been unavailable since the mid-70's.

70

Thanks BillyZoom

Last time I had to deal with Cambric was with a Simon&Garfunkel song -lol.

Amazing info thanks. !

I am starting to sound like an attaboy.

You sure saved me a boatload with this information.

71

I bought a parsley-sage cone at the Fair - in rosemary. I preferred blueberry, but they were out of it at the thyme.

72

Now sing and play that through a cambric JBL with a gretsch and you have a parody that only the members of this thread will understand. The rest of the world will think you are crazy. Which why parody is so useful.

73

Nice thank you, Strange that I googled for 10" and couldnt find any, but you sure found it.

Just saw a video of Albert Collins with what seems definitely to be JBL. One of the shows with Lonnie Mac, he plays what seems to be a transistor fender amp, which is strange as he usually played Fender Super Reverb. The metallic domes are clearly visible. I found many examples and it seems to be a huge part of his trademark sound.

About every of my favorite guitarists used JBL, but as my original post explains, I avoided them due to a highscool band experience.

I just have to give them a try.

– retnev

In this picture Albert Collins appears to be playing through the Fender Quad Reverb on the left. That was basically a Twin Reverb in 4x12 combo form. Ice-pickin' indeed!

74

Billy, thanks for the wisdom on JBL. Three of my amps have vintage JBL speakers: a 15" in a home made Bassman-ish build, a 12" in a home-made blackface Princeton (both D-series) and a K series 12" in a '66 Deluxe Reverb. JBL's have always been my favourite speaker (they give me "more" of everything), but I didn't know about the differences between them. Stuff like this keeps me coming back here!

75

Jeff H

"In this picture Albert Collins appears to be playing through the Fender Quad Reverb on the left. That was basically a Twin Reverb in 4x12 combo form. Ice-pickin' indeed! "

Yes that was the amp I was referring to.

I can clearly see a head on the amp (looks like solid state) from the picture if I look closely or is it an aberration ? Must be aberration. The photo is blurry.

I know collins played quads, but that one looks strange.


Register Sign in to join the conversation