Other Amps

Fender Princeton Reverb ~ 12” speaker upgrade?

26

I also have a 65 RI Princeton Reverb with whatever stock 10” speaker and tubes that came with it (Im not where I can look right now). I notice it wants to “honk” bass notes sometimes but based on some of the comments here I’m going to dial the bass back to 2 and see what that gets me

– Mr_Christopher

That stock speaker (Jensen C10R) is notorious at being very flabby in the bass. Changing that speaker- even to another 10"- should greatly improve that issue. The C10R is not a great speaker, imo.

FWIW, I tried several things (mods) to tighten the bass on my PR... upgraded the OT, added a filter cap, but changing the speaker made 90% of the difference. And you can definitely find a 10" that will hold up, a 12" is not necessary. However- a 12" will give you different characteristics that you might prefer.... as noted above, I think a 12" makes the little cab sound "bigger". And a 12" will likely give you more mids.

Also FWIW, Jim Campilongo keeps 10s in all his PRs, and he plays them on 10. Vol on 10, Bass on 10, Treble on 6-7. He controls everything from the guitar. His favorite replacement speaker is the Celestion G10 Vintage- he has said "it sounds like a speaker that's already broken in, out of the box" and "it can handle the bass frequencies".

https://www.jimcampilongo.c...

27

C10R - it's not a great speaker, but it depends on the application. I have two of them in a Super Reverb along with two WGS VET 10's, and it's a beautiful combination for low bucks.

The main issue with Princetons and farty bass is the amp's design : it has a fairly primitive phase inverter design (by 60's Fender standards, same as in a 5E3 Deluxe) and the phase inverter will often distort (and not in the prettiest way) before the preamp or power amp do. That makes for a Princeton "crashing" in the bass as you turn it up, and no speaker or transformer change is going to change that. Some players (like Campilongo) use that effect to their advantage, but it's always going to be there. Besides the size of the power transformer and voltages, the phase inverter and how it behaves is one of the main differences between a Princeton and a Deluxe Reverb.

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Yes, I know about the PR's PI. But I think you can almost completely negate the farty bass with the proper speaker, and many people think the cathodyne inverter in the PR sounds "sweeter" than the long-tailed-pair PI in the DR.

In any event, if I'm using a PR, I don't need huge & tight bass response. I'm not playing bass or chugga chugga metal with it lol. As long as the low end doesn't fart out when the amp is in it's sweet spot (around 5), that's plenty good enough for my application.

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I put one of these in my '74 Princeton:

https://wgsusa.com/g10c

The difference was remarkable, especially after break in. I play a White Falcon through this amp! In my opinion, a 12" speaker may be unnecessary for you.

30

I have a 12" in my vintage 67 PR. I think there is no better or worse. It depends on taste and the situation. I noticed - with a 12" you loose a bit of sparkle in the top and the amp reacts a tiny bit slower. That could be the reason why the mids appear more prominent. - the lows move further down. And the corner frequency is lower. - in a live situation without a P.A. the 12" fills the room better. With a miked amp in the studio that doesn´t really matter.

I love to combine my PR with a Super Champ (80th Rivera) with a Eminence Allesandro 10".

31

I went ahead and ordered a Jupiter 10", it's coming from WGS direct anyway.

32

I went ahead and ordered a Jupiter 10", it's coming from WGS direct anyway.

– Devil's Tool

That's an inefficient speaker, so you may actually drop some volume, but they get very good reviews, sound-wise.

33

That's an inefficient speaker, so you may actually drop some volume, but they get very good reviews, sound-wise.

– JBGretschGuy

That's okay, I think it's a straight 25w for 25w swap for the Jensen that's in there. I'm looking for volume flexibility versus having the most efficient speaker in there.

I totally apologize to Windsordave, I somehow missed the question on the first page - he's running a Supro 1605RT at 6w and a few pedals which boost his volume depending on what song we're on. He's primarily a lead player. I'm handling most of the rhythm but I use a bunch of pedals too, primarily using boost when I'm doing a lead run.

34

The Weber 12" in my 1972 PR sounds great. If you do go with the 12", it is not at all necessary to enlarge the baffle hole. Just center the 12" and drill new bolt holes. If you don't like it, just pop the 10" back in.

A lot of the new speakers are very efficient, but some are less so. The Weber Signature is a great speaker for very reasonable dollars. For a little less efficiency but great tone, that would be my first choice. https://www.tedweber.com/sp...

I liked the alnico better than the ceramic.

35

The 10" Jupiter showed up today for my PRRI - I'm pretty blown away. Sparkly/chimey highs and the entire bottom end and mids are more balanced. Muuuuch more clarity - I'm getting shades of my DRRI in how clean it is now. I do realize that I bought a speaker from a site that has absolutely no specifications on it - but I don't know how to read the specs that I can find on the other sites, so that's probably par for the course for me. Knowing that WGS makes it, it wasn't going to be a stinker.

Now I have to dial in my entire pedal board again....lol.....

Great recommendation, thanks WB!

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The Princeton is a bigger version of a Champ. A Deluxe is a smaller version of a Twin or Pro. The Deluxe is a much better amplifier.

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The Princeton is a bigger version of a Champ. A Deluxe is a smaller version of a Twin or Pro. The Deluxe is a much better amplifier.

– Billy Zoom

Agreed, I do like my Deluxe more, the Princeton is a means to an end.

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The Princeton is a bigger version of a Champ. A Deluxe is a smaller version of a Twin or Pro. The Deluxe is a much better amplifier.

– Billy Zoom

IDK, for clean tones, I have always thought there was something about the Princeton making it sweeter (especially at those volumes), AND I prefer bias tremolo to opto-bug tremolo....

And I'm not alone on this. It's a widely held opinion. Especially for home players.

Interesting to note that for many years Jim Campilongo chose the Princeton for all his gigs and recordings... at first it was because the PR was easier to carry to NYC gigs. But then he also records his recent albums with the PR instead of another amp... Orange was a PR, Dream Dictionary was a PR...

Guthrie Trapp find all the blackfaces interchangeable, only using different ones as volume needs increase. PR as home and at alot of sessions, DR for alot of gigs, VR for bigger gigs.

39

Now that I've had some more time to play through it I really like the Jupiter 10" in this amp. I feel like the bass is way more under control and I actually had to dial the treble down a hair because my reverb pedal was driving it so hard. The treble and bass settings on the amp got completely renegotiated, and sounds fantastic. It's really taking my pedal board well and I haven't had to make many changes.

I think this got me where I need to be - muuuuch more clean and string definition is really good. My picking dynamics suck - in general - but I'm really getting a good response when I'm digging in, and when I dial it back a hair, very responsive.

Overall - solid "upgrade" for a sideways (25w to 25w) speaker.

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Glad you like it David!!


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