Other Amps

Fender Princeton Reverb ~ 12” speaker upgrade?

1

I just picked up a '65 Princeton Reverb RI, after playing my DRRI for a while they're definitely different amps. I got the PRRI because the DRRI seemed to overwhelm the 5w Supro in my band and my 5w 6150T pushed itself to the max to keep up.

What benefits will I get putting a 12" speaker into the PRRI? Am I just getting myself into a situation where I'll kill a 5w again?

2

Hasn't DCBIRDMAN done this to several amps? I think a lot of people love stuffing a 12" in a Princeton. I was going to, but rather found a speaker (10") that gave me the lower mids and bass that I wanted out of it.

3

Yes, I have! To me 8's should be ILLEGAL, single 10s are marginal at best.

And I have been focused on stuffing 12s into single 10 combos. I hear a difference. As much as a standard as black and silver panel Fender combos are they don't have a lot of bass built int othe bass knob as other amps do. I have compared them. Its a mild bass boost. So to me sticking a12 in a Princeton gets me the sound I want in a small cab, of course realizing cab size affects the sound. From what is described here, I think a Deluxe Reverb sounds like overkill in this 5-12 watt scene D.Tool is describing.

4

I believe that 10" is part of the essence of a Princeton Reverb: tighter mids, better balance. In comparison, a 12" is bass heavy, muddy mids and harsh trebles. I play clean and of course it always depends on what you're looking for.

5

If you get an efficient 10" speaker, like an Eminence Ramrod, you won't even know it's not a 12. I have one in a tube Vox Cambridge and it's remarkable!

6

I’m using a Celestion Alnico Gold in a PR clone I built. Works like a charm. I have a 1964 Deluxe Reverb and I generally leave it at home these days and opt for the Princeton Reverb now . It’s lighter and better suited to the smaller clubs we play these days.

7

I have the 68 custom PRRI, with a 10" celestion and that amp has no shortage of bass, its insane. I keep the bass on like 2 and treble on 6-7. Id never stick a 12" in that amp.

8

I have a PRRI that DCBirdman stuffed a 12"er into. It's quite a beast. I don't believe any 5-watt amps would be happy to share a stage with it.

I previously had a PRRI with the usual 10"er. I liked that, too. You guys have me thinking about putting a quality 10"er in the ex-DCBirdman amp, now.

Paul/FF909

9

I believe that 10" is part of the essence of a Princeton Reverb: tighter mids, better balance. In comparison, a 12" is bass heavy, muddy mids and harsh trebles. I play clean and of course it always depends on what you're looking for.

– GG

You won‘t hear „harsh trebles and muddy mids“ from a quality speaker, that is nonsense.

10

12" in a PR is a very popular mod. Even Fender themselves do it now. I am currently GASsing for the Knotty Pine w/Celestion Alnico Cream version....

Personally, I think the BF circuit benefits from more mids (I even changed the mids resistor in mine)... but then I like the blonde/brown tone better than the BF tone most of the time....

11

I guess I could always plug my DRRI speaker into the output on the PRRI. Since they're in different cabs it wouldn't be exact, but I'd get a better idea. Like Chmason85, my bass is about 2 and treble is between 7 and 8 so it's definitely a bass heavy amp. It sounds like the general consensus is that a 12" opens up the PR, which isn't exactly what I need. I may fool around with a 10" speaker "upgrade" and find maybe a more balanced speaker but ultimately avoid doing anything drastic that will bump my volume range up.

Thanks for the input!

12

I have swapped the 10" for a 12" in a couple of PR. My ear likes the 12" better, and I can't think of anyone I know who has made the swap to a 12" and then switched back to a 10", for what it is worth.

13

What are you looking for in a 12 you think the 10 doesn't have?

14

Perhaps more clarity when clean? Going between the DRRI and the PRRI, the DRRI has more clean headroom, and the PRRI sounds darker. It's really hard for me to describe.

15

I’d like to hear a speaker that’s a little less bass heavy in a PR. Maybe along the lines of a Weber Blue Pup. They sound awsome in single ended 6V6 circuits.

16

DRRI is a bigger, loud amp too, so it's supposed to have some more clean. But I'll echo what others have said - if you want more clean headroom, there are a lot of 10" speakers out there now that are more efficient than even the average 12 Fender used to use. An efficient big magnet 10" would be the cheaper/easier option too, it would save you from getting a new baffle board or altering the one you have.

a WGS G10C would be my pick for maximum "very Fender blackface clean", and it's not an expensive speaker either.

Jensen Neo Tornado 10 is a nice speaker too, very efficient and 75W power handling, and doesn't weigh more than the stock speaker in there.

Eminence has some extremely efficient 10's too, a Ragin' Cajun is a popular choice for (a lot) more headroom, punch and low end.

A Celestion V10 is loud, has a lot of low end, and is darker than a lot of other 10's, and will sound better if you want to stick a lot of OD/distortion/fuzz pedals in front.

Almost any replacement 10 out there will make it fatter and louder than the stock Jensen C10R Fender puts in the stock princeton reissue.

17

I appreciate the suggestions - the thing that I'm worried about is putting such an efficient speaker into it that I run into the same problem that I have band-wise with the DRRI, where I'm overpowering the other other guitar player and I'm on "2" with a relatively anemic tone. The stock Jensen is 25w, putting a much higher wattage speaker in the PRRI will definitely give me more clean headroom, but then I feel like I'm going to get so much louder that it's negating the effect of moving to a smaller wattage amp. A weird balance, and maybe I'm not approaching the problem correctly.

18

10" speakers that plain sound better than the Jensen that's in your amp but are not more efficient are WGS' Veteran 10, Eminence's Allessandro 10, Jupiter condenser's small magnet 10 and if you want it a little darker, Celestion's Greenback 10.

20

I also have a 65 RI Princeton Reverb with whatever stock 10” speaker and tubes that came with it (Im not where I can look right now). I notice it wants to “honk” bass notes sometimes but based on some of the comments here I’m going to dial the bass back to 2 and see what that gets me

21

10" speakers that plain sound better than the Jensen that's in your amp but are not more efficient are WGS' Veteran 10, Eminence's Allessandro 10, Jupiter condenser's small magnet 10 and if you want it a little darker, Celestion's Greenback 10.

– WB

I think the WGS and Jupiter are the same speaker. Same factory.

22

I appreciate the suggestions - the thing that I'm worried about is putting such an efficient speaker into it that I run into the same problem that I have band-wise with the DRRI, where I'm overpowering the other other guitar player and I'm on "2" with a relatively anemic tone. The stock Jensen is 25w, putting a much higher wattage speaker in the PRRI will definitely give me more clean headroom, but then I feel like I'm going to get so much louder that it's negating the effect of moving to a smaller wattage amp. A weird balance, and maybe I'm not approaching the problem correctly.

– Devil's Tool

Irrespective of what you're thinking about doing, either stepping up size to a 12" or going with the higher efficiency 10's now available, I view your band issue - the other guitar player - is a big source of the issue you're trying to fix! If you're playing a DDRI at 2 and overpowering this other player, then the first issue should be what the hell pathetic amp is he using!! At your setting, you shouldn't be overpowering any amp but a little 5 watt thing. This player needs to get a real amp!!

I've always been a proponent of single 10" speakers not up to the task but it sounds like the latest improvements have come a long way, and putting a really good one in as suggested by a few folks here in a PRRI would be the easiest route to take and five you the sound you're after. Regardless, the REAL issue here as I see it is the other guy's gear, not yours.

23

Well I will sound a mildly dissonant note and say I really like the 12" in my original ' 65 PR. Having said that, putting one in a RI is a lot more problematic. I don't know that it's necessarily better, but the point is well taken that if you can find a 10" that will make you happy , it's a far easier and reversible option. Personally, I'd give the Weber 10F150T 50w a go, but it seems like there are lots of choices of high efficiency speakers that will give you the clean headroom you are looking for.

24

Get the other guitar player a microphone.

25

I agree with Don. BTW, out of curiosity, what guitar and amp is the other guy using, and what role in the band does he play?


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