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Blond Bassman alternative?

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- Rated: 12 ↑
Mar 1, 2008 1:19 p.m. jonhope:

My dream amp is the piggyback blond bassman that Mr Brian Setzer has used on stage for many years to devastating effect .

After not finding an original piggyback blond bassman cheap on e-bay (which these days is never going to happen ) I realize that the best new amp equivalent is the Gomez El Sondino however this is somewhat out of my price range.

After a lot of reading (including the excellent page on Brian Setzers stage set-up where it is stated that Brains setup is like a JTM45 on steriods!) it would seem that a Marshall JTM45 with a 2x12 cab loaded with V30's would get you most of the way there. I know they are not exactly the same. Vintage JTM45's are no cheaper than a Gomez so they are a no go.

There are however a number of replica kits one of which has taken my eye - namely the Ceriatone JTM45 - I can get this as afully wired and tubed head then get a 2x12 cabinet and head made with blond tolex for less than half price of the Gomez.

Has anyone any experience with these particular amps in a rock'n'roll, rockabilly or country style environment rather than one playing Bluesbreakers songs?

I know I will never sound like Mr Setzer because only he can do that and equipment can only take you so far before talent (or the lack of it in my case) takes over.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
- Rated: 33 ↑
Mar 1, 2008 3:37 p.m. RepentOrPerish:

Just get a Bassman head, be it blackface or otherwise, and then use a budget cab til you can afford better.

Another way to go, cheaper still, is to get a Fender Bandmaster head and cab. You can get an original setup for the price of a Bassman head alone (blonde head I mean ) and it's pretty close, soundwise, for most applications.

Another thing to consider is to get a new or used Fender Super Sonic. It has the blonde look, can be purchased as a combo or head and cab, plus it has an all tube "bassman" setting that is quite convincing. The piggyback doesnt have reverb, but has the look. The combo is more portable, has reverb, most of the look you want, and they both have really flexible channels.
- Rated: 53 ↑
Mar 2, 2008 12:15 p.m. Ratrod:

I've heard good things about Ceriatone. I know a guy from another forum who has ordered one. I'm curious about how it sounds.

Another bassman alternative would be the Engl Classic. It's very close to a bassman and JTM45.

I have been playing mine for about a week now and I'm loving it. With the gain on the clean channel, you can dial in that Setzer style overdriven tone.
- Rated: 10 ↑
Mar 2, 2008 1:08 p.m. jezzbo:

I build two amps based on the ceriatone kits. A Mutchle$$ DC30 and a fender 5E3. Both sound VERY nice. Hey you could ask Nik of Ceriatone if he would make a clone of the 6G6 blonde bassman. As soon as I get enough money I'm gonna build another one. (and probably starting from a ceriatone kit) Have fun with your quest for ultimate tone.
- Rated: 43 ↑
Mar 2, 2008 1:58 p.m. Jeff O(h, The Places You'll Go):

I think RoP means SuperSonic
- Rated: 13 ↑
Mar 2, 2008 2:39 p.m. LDC:

Get a Blackface (BF) Bassman head, any 2x12 cab and put Greenbacks in it and a variac. Setzer uses the normal channel on his Bassman so he isn't using either the extra gain channel or the post preamp tone stack found in the bass channel of the Blonde Bassman. The real difference between the normal channels of the blonde and BF Bassmans is that the BF uses a 12AT7 phase inverter and the BF has higher plate voltages on the preamp. The variac can be used to dial your wall voltage down from 120V to 100-110V. This will drop your plate voltage in all stages to facilitate an early breakup. Eddie Van Halen used a variac for his Marshall Super lead for the early Van Halen records. Tone settings should be Treble=10, Bass=4 and Bright Switch to Bright. Here's a BF Bassman on eBay. Here's a variac on eBay.
- Rated: 33 ↑
Mar 2, 2008 3:21 p.m. RepentOrPerish:

Post corrected. Yes, SuperSonic ! (The Pro Sonic is what the SuperSonic's high gain channel is based on...oooooops)...
- Rated: 43 ↑
Mar 3, 2008 10:56 a.m. Diggey:

I hear you, I too searched long and hard for a Minty Blonde Bassman to chase the tone. I ended up writing a list of pros and cons to buying vintage or new and for me personally I wanted a new amp that I can grow old with that has the best of that old school tones.

I did not want to buy somethnig less then what I wanted and try to "build" a usable tonal template and then long for the exact thing anyway.

So, I decided to buy the El Sonido, and though it is a farly pricey amp, it is worth every penny. I get easy Blonde Setzer tones. I wish I could play like him but the tones are in there. The only difference is jaking the bass up a notch more then Brians settings and you might have to jack up the volume about 6-7 to get the breakup he gets on 5. But get an attenuater..... (There is a link on here somewhere with his exact settings, and I can find them for you if needed.)

My advice, is to save your money for what you want the first time. Band-aiding a silverface or modding a blackface will only get you partially there. At least in my opinion. Thats what I thought. Why spend several hundred for something? Then mod it and spend several more? Maybe get it re-tolexed blonde and it still not be..... a blonde 6G6. Close but no cigar. Except no substitutes. Life is to short man.

The El Sonido is basically a new old stock. For me thats what I wanted. I wanted to travel back in time, and buy one and come forward to now. Since my time machine is not working right now, The Gomez El Sonido amp is the best alternative and the best I've ever owned.

I sold a Bassman LTD reissue and a 1 x 15 Vibroverb shortly after I got this because they would never be played again. It was like finding the other half after searching for 24yrs of playing. I actually want a second one to just keep since I'll never want another amp again and I want a backup for when it needs serviced. (besides, 2 looks better then one.)

Save the money, get yourself together and bite the bullet once. You'll have years of playing, worry free, with a MINT/NEW totally different then anyone amp.

Not only is it killer with Gretsch, but Fenders both Teles and Strats sound totally Divine. I like the solid state, for immediate attack and this amp is all tone. You will not be disappointed.

Plus you get topshelf service and a special niche membership.

He just got ANOTHER endorsement from ANOTHER cool player, the guitarist from the Hot Rod Trio; Buddy Dughi. Plus, Eddie Bertrand also a few months back.
So two hard working musicians, who gig a ton and both have a history with Blonde Bassmans and showmans, are getting the same tones and are able to semi-retire or semi- protect the investment of thier originals.

THAT SAYS ALOT RIGHT THERE!!! I wouldn't be surprised if Brian Setzer gets on board. I am serious, they are that good and that close to the originals that you will not find a MINT Old Stock for exactly what you want.

Get the El Sonido.
- Rated: 7 ↑
Mar 5, 2008 9:45 a.m. cxdeluxe:

You could do the variac thing but if I'm not mistaken you should be able to swap out the resistors in the b+ chain to get the voltage down. You might have to experiment by clipping in a few different values before you solder, but it wouldn't be difficult.
Running a variAC WILL take your plate voltages down but it will also take your AC heater voltages down. That's hard on tubes. Probably wouldn't sound the same as Bassman (with similar PV and correct heater voltages) either. I know some people run a variac to get a particular sound on occasion, but it likely wouldn't be something you'd want to do regularly if you're looking for reliability and longevity. I could definitely be wrong on this.
- Rated: 43 ↑
Mar 5, 2008 11:43 a.m. Jeff O(h, The Places You'll Go):

cx - that's true if you're using the variac for MAJOR voltage drops (like taking it down to 80v from 120v), which might even be beyond the normal operating range of the components.

If you're just dropping it to 105, or some other minor drop (10%, etc), AND it's within the normal operating range for the components, this will have little or no effect on longevity.
- Rated: 2 ↑
Mar 25, 2008 12:55 p.m. I am Icinerator:

I'm interested in the El Sonido myself, and will have one someday (when my car/credit cards are paid up in a couple years).

I play more what people would call "Alt.Country" and alittle big star/bad finger style power pop and after hearing a few recordings/performances done with a Blonde Bassman and hearing they're a pretty sweet base for pedals...I'm sold.

Now I just gotta bide the time.
- Rated: 6 ↑
Oct 29, 2008 6:28 p.m. ruger9:

Dug this one back up...

Seriously considering a Marsh 6G6-B. I also chase the Setzer tones...

Question: I know an attenuator will be needed (have been using them for years), but has anyone been able to get a convincing Blonde Bassman tone out of anything lower-wattage? I just sold my Super-Sonic (just didn't do it IMHO), have been thinking about a Swart of somekind, but I also want to just get the 6G6-B and be done with it. But the volume, for a non-gigging musician, I'm worried it'll be too much at home, even attenuated.

I don't need "bedroom" volumes, just "loud home" volumes would be fine... my wife is understanding.

That Chiken Pickin Amp Co. makes a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe... WITH 5881s (25 watts)... I wonder if that might do the trick?
- Rated: 42 ↑
Oct 29, 2008 11:05 p.m. JBGretschguy:

A 5E3 will never make 6G6-B sounds. I have had tons of amps in my time, and the ONLY thing that sounds like a blonde Bassman is a blonde Bassman.

This is our own Proteus playing through mine. The tone is unmistakeably Setzer-ish.

http://gallery.me.com/joshbradshaw#100037/SANY0176&bgcolor=black

I have dealt with Mike Marsh and he is top notch!!
- Rated: 6 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 6:20 a.m. ruger9:

Wow. you've got THE setup. I'm looking for something a little more home-friendly... lower-power, 1x12. Was going to ask Marsh to build me a 1x12 combo 6G6-B. Someone on these forums has one (altho not built by Marsh, it's a real 6G6-B that had been combo-ized.)

Actually, just how loud is the Bassman when you get it up into Setzer territory? I mean, shake the windows loud, or just loud enough to piss off the wife? (the latter I can deal with... )
- Rated: 31 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 6:36 a.m. Danman:

I have a bassman like JB has and I can tell you it is window shaking loud inside your house. I have tried it before on 3 inside but it feels like everything is going to collaps. They are loud..... Your wife will have left you by then, but you don't seem to mind.
And louder, well I tried that too but only standing in a different room with my guitar, wow, that's is something else. Worth it to try though.
- Rated: 66 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 6:54 a.m. Walter Broes:

Ruger, I've had a blonde bassman, and with new caps and tubes, two celestions, and no booster/overdrive of some sort it was a little too loud, clean, and tight for my band, let alone for playing at home!

I do think a large part of the sound that Setzer gets out of them is the healthy input boost from his Space Echo, and in his typical live tone, I'm hearing the typical midrange content of Celestion speakers too, and the thump of that closed back 2X12 cab.

I wouldn't really know what to recommend for a quieter version of exactly that sound, but like JB says, tweeds are entirely different amps.
- Rated: 6 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 7:37 a.m. ruger9:

Someone suggested I try to get a custom-build... a 6G6-B preamp circuit, but with 6V6s. Actually, it can be made to handle 6V6s and/or 6L6s/5881s. Not a bad idea, but a custom build would probably cost a fortune...
- Rated: 6 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 8:56 a.m. ruger9:

Or should I just can the whole thing, get a 6G6-B and an Ultimate Attenuator?
- Rated: 45 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 12:08 p.m. Tsar Nicholas :

JB said: This is our own Proteus playing through mine. The tone is unmistakeably Setzer-ish. http://gallery.me.com/joshbradshaw#100037/SANY0176&bgcolor=black>
That is some tasty lickin' going on there!

- Rated: 53 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 12:58 p.m. Ratrod:

Brian Setzer's Bassman is hardly a Bassman anymore. It has pre-amp tubes that go into overdrive pretty quick. The 5881 power tubes up the midrange and lower the wattage somewhat. And I believe it had several other mods done. Also he uses Celestion speakers.

Brian Setzer's Bassman is more like a Marshall JTM-45.
- Rated: 66 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 1:02 p.m. Walter Broes:

Ratrod, I think his amps are fairly stock, and a 6G6B has all 7025's stock. What do you mean by "hardly a bassman any more"?

Billy Zoom is best qualified to answer the "mod" question, as he's worked on those amps.

A JTM45 has a tube rectifier, btw. Considerable difference in feel and onset of compression.
- Rated: 42 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 1:42 p.m. JBGretschguy:

The amp Proteus is playing through in that video has Tung-Sol 5881 tubes and Celestion Vintage 30s.

In my quest for the Setzer tone, I found absolutely nothing that would get me there and still be small, easy to carry, lightweight, inexpensive, or any combination thereof. Everything I have tried was "close, but no cigar."

Sometimes I still try to find something easy to carry and big sounding at the same time. But to move a lot of air, it takes big transformers and big speaker magnets and there's no getting around that.
- Rated: 77 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 3:08 p.m. sassy:

You got that right Josh...I've got a set of Altec Lansing Valencias that shake your pant legs but it takes two guys to carry one of them
- Rated: 11 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 3:32 p.m. ziess:

A blonde Twin?
- Rated: 6 ↑
Oct 30, 2008 3:50 p.m. ruger9:

So, it's sounding more & more like I need to just bite the bullet & get a 6G6-B. Then see if an Ultimate Attenuator, or possibly some kind of power scaling, will get me down into the volumes I'm looking for. One of those "you won't find out until you try it" things...

FWIW, I've never read of Brian Setzer's amps being "modded"... just NOS 5881s, new Chinese 12AX7s, 16ga. speaker wire, and V30s. That's it. None of those things are what I would call "mods", just personal preferences.

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