Other Amps

any delays especially good at slapback?

1

That's about all I use on the delay scene, and I don't need all the long delay/runaway repeats.

You might say they are all the same but I had high hopes for the Echoplex pedal and the shortest delay wasn't short enough. Others were not crisp, sorta mushy. I used to be in to the early Boss delays but not so much now.

But if any are really designed with slapback in mind and don't even have long interval delay, or just accidentally turned out be to superior on the slapback scene, I would like to know!

Thanks

2

I make one But you really need a Boss DM-3 w its orginal 12v power supply. The DM-2 is mushy to begin with but even worse w 9v. All early boss pedals should run on the required 12v power supply.

4

I would go with Tavo. His stuff is IT.

I have an re-20 space echo simple man's recreation kind of thing. It's is ok--better than some give it credit, but still only ok.

K

5

I make one But you really need a Boss DM-3 w its orginal 12v power supply. The DM-2 is mushy to begin with but even worse w 9v. All early boss pedals should run on the required 12v power supply.

– TheNocturneBrain

Hey Tavo.I have a DM-2 that has the ACA adaptor circuit bypassed so it runs on a regular 9v adaptor. Do you think they sound mushy that way? I'm not sure I'm hearing what you're hearing.

6

The Dan-Echo is what I use on stage when I want a slap-back. Really (really) affordable. I tend to use real tape on studio but could get it right (to my years) with the Dan-Echo.

8

Hey Tavo.I have a DM-2 that has the ACA adaptor circuit bypassed so it runs on a regular 9v adaptor. Do you think they sound mushy that way? I'm not sure I'm hearing what you're hearing.

– GaryE

Youre good If your DM-2 has been modded, then you are getting proper voltage to the bucket brigade chip. If you are using a 9v regulated pwr supply to an Un-modded early Boss pedal requiring 12v unregulated, then you arent ever gonna hear the intent of the original pedal's design. Unfortunately all the internet boneheads over the years have said too often that these pedals seems "dark or mushy".. thats because of their ignorance. #harsh #biting #vengeful

..and just to keep this info on the googlebots crawlfest, the long version:

BOSS DM-3 9v upgrade / mod for conversion from OEM 12v ACA to regulated 9 volt PSA pwr (culled from a few spots I posted about this, in addition to this mod I replace necessary Electrolytic caps that may have exceeded their 15 yr limit by year 2000..this isnt the case 85% of the time but has been the case for me with pedals I've bought from this era. Also the JRC 4558 can be damaged from overheating in the area of the resistor that isnt happy with modern power supplies. If you have a DM-2 or DM-3 with weak or dark repeats its time to replace the 4558 chip and a few E caps, then install the jumper mod)

the pedal in it original OEM state uses a 12vACA power supply, so to plug a 9V regulated power supply (ala boss PSA or onespot or ...) the pedal is being starved a little. If you plug it into a daisy chain with other regulated pwr supplied pedals running, it supposedly lets the pedal see the full 9v. I ran mine for yrs like that until I found a mod for older boss pedals like the CE-2 chorus.. Applying that mod to the DM-2/DM-3 and bypassing the resistor and diode, just insures a solid 9V regulated and low noise power supply (assuming you are not a nimnal using a non audio filtered regulated power supply like something from Radioshack/tandy).

The end result is a more defined slapback that is letting the DM-3s compander circuit perform its best as well as the proper voltage going to the delay chip. I get more headroom and less washed out repeats.. They are still warm and round. organic,yada yada but the pedal responds the way the designer intended.

worthy technical notes on the ACA - PSA conundrum D1 and R3 are in series between the power jack and the battery terminals - meaning the battery doesn't pass through D1 and R3 but the power supply does. T R3 must be dropping the current into the circuit when using an ACA PSU but unfortunately it's also doing it when a regulated is used, so bypass it and be able to use a regulated PSU.

Boss uses a diode and resistor to regulate the voltage in older boss pedals when powered by a power supply which is why a regulated 9v supply will not work. The resistor and diode drop the voltage to about 6.2 volts resulting in thin tone and a dim LED. When a battery is used the diode and resistor are bypassed, same is true when you daisy chain the power with other PSA effects.

Using a jumper is an easy and reversible mod but just be sure you don't use an unregulated 12v adapter after the mod. The first filter cap on the pedal is only rated for 16v and since all CE-2's are approaching 20 years old now those caps have to be pretty dry. If you are going to open the thing up and work on it it's not a bad idea to replace all the electrolytic caps and put a 100uf/25v cap for the filter cap for a little more headroom on the rated voltage.

Don't forget that the ACA adapter changed too in 1997. Earlier ACA adapters were 12 volts DC unregulated (to work with the ACA pedals of that time), while newer ACA adapters (produced after mid 1997) are 9 volts DC unregulated (to work with the ACA pedals produced after 1997).

...which more or less makes the modern ACA adapter useless. You can't use it to power your pre-1997 ACA pedal (which would need a different adapter, if powered alone), as it is only 9 volts DC instead of the 12 volts the pedal wants to see. And while it will work fine with the post-1997 ACA pedals, so will the regulated PSA adapter.

"ACA Adapter

The ACA is an unregulated 9V or 12V adapter. For a long time both the ACA and the regulated PSA adapter was available but in the later part of the 90s the ACA adapter was discontinued as all Boss pedals then was designed to run with the PSA adapter.

When a power supply is unregulated, it means that the voltage level will drop as the load is increased. The ACA adapter may give out a full 12 volt when it is powering one or two pedals but if it is hooked up to a long row of pedals the voltage will drop. The ACA adapter is capable of supplying as much current as 250mA but problems keeping the voltage up may occur before the load reaches that level.

The early compact pedals was designed to run on either a 9V DC battery or 12V DC adapter. Because of this the ACA adapter was a 12V adapter. The voltage was reduced to 9V internally by using a 470 Ohm resistor and 1S2473 diode between the minus input on the power jack and ground. The resistor diode pair was later removed and at the same time the ACA adpater was redesigned to output 9V instead.

Powering ACA pedals with a PSA power supply Powering the older pedals designed for 12V DC input with either a newer ACA or PSA adapter will not work very well. The voltage drop over the resistor and diode will prevent the pedal from getting enough power and its LED will usually only glow faintly. The solution is to use a daisy chain and plug in another pedal designed for the newer ACA or PSA adapter. The lead between the two pedals will short the resistor diode pair and the pedal will receive full power.

Depending on the mains voltage there are 4 were versions of the ACA adapter. ACA-100, ACA-120, ACA-220 and ACA-240. The number denotes the mains voltage that the adpapter should be plugged into. The 9V version of the ACA adapter has a G appended at the end of its name. Pictured is the ACA-120G which is the version sold in the USA."

"PSA Adapter

The PSA adapter is a regulated power supply that outputs 9V DC and can supply up to 200mA current. Regulated means that the power supply contains a circuit that helps stabilise the voltage at 9V even when the load is increasing. The earlier ACA adapters did not have this feature and when many pedals were connected, the voltage would drop.

Like the ACA adapter, the PSA adapter is available as PSA-100, PSA-120, PSA-220 and PSA-240. The number reprsents the input mains voltage it is designed for.

Powering ACA pedals with a PSA power supply Powering the older pedals designed for the 12V DC ACA adapter PSA adapter will not work very well. The older pedals contains a resistor and diode that will lower the internal voltage voltage supplied to the rest of the circuit. This will prevent the pedal from beeing fully powered and its LED will often fail to light up properly. The solution is to use a daisy chain and plug in another pedal designed for the newer PSA adapter. The lead between the two pedals will short the resistor diode pair and the pedal will receive full power."

  • DM-3 Delay The DM-3 was last analog delay pedal produced by Boss. The circuitry is similar to the DM-2's but it isn't identical. The DM-3 has a built in high speed noise reduction circuit and an additional filter. It's also got a direct output that can be used to create a stereo effect. The delay time is variable between 20ms and 300ms just as the DM-2 and the control layout is also identical. The knobs on the DM-3 stands out when comparing to other Boss pedals. They only featured on the DM-3 and early versions of the CE-2B.

Specifications

Controls: Repeat Rate, Echo, Intensity Connectors: Input, Output, AC Adaptor Current Draw: 18 mA (DC 9V, D.Time control at center) Weight: 450 g (0.99 lb.) Input Impedance: 1Mohm (FET Input) Residual Noise Level: -100dBm (IHF-A) Recommended Load Impedance: 10kOhm or greater Delay Time: 20ms to 300ms Recommended AC Adaptor: ACA Series Labels

Green - Made In Japan The DM-3 was sold from May 1984 to May 1988.***[/QUOTE]

9

The Dan-Echo is what I use on stage when I want a slap-back.

There you go. It does ONLY slapback. Could hardly be more minimalist.

https://reverb.com/marketpl...

– Proteus

No sir. Dan-Echo does all lengths of echo and repeats. I use one for slapback.

10

No sir. Dan-Echo does all lengths of echo and repeats. I use one for slapback.

Uh oh. DCB won't like it now. Was there a pedal in the Dano plastic food series which was ONLY slapback? Seems I remember one.

Once you're talking full-length Dano delays, there's the Reel Echo, which is also mighty fine.

11

Thanks for that comprehensive info Tavo!

12

No sir. Dan-Echo does all lengths of echo and repeats. I use one for slapback.

Uh oh. DCB won't like it now. Was there a pedal in the Dano plastic food series which was ONLY slapback? Seems I remember one.

Once you're talking full-length Dano delays, there's the Reel Echo, which is also mighty fine.

– Proteus

You’re thinking of the BLT

13

No sir. Dan-Echo does all lengths of echo and repeats. I use one for slapback.

Uh oh. DCB won't like it now. Was there a pedal in the Dano plastic food series which was ONLY slapback? Seems I remember one.

Once you're talking full-length Dano delays, there's the Reel Echo, which is also mighty fine.

– Proteus

But there is a switch so you can keep the pedal on the "slap back position" and not mess around with longer intervals. Pretty handy.

14

But there is a switch so you can keep the pedal on the "slap back position" and not mess around with longer intervals.

That's what the Birdman needs. Metal case too, right? The BLT (thanks, CV) is plastic.

15

I just got a Sonic cake Twiggy Blues, Has Compressor/OD/Rev and Slapback, I am utterly amazed on the goodness of the slapback, the entire small pedal was $85! It sure is something to look into.

16

But there is a switch so you can keep the pedal on the "slap back position" and not mess around with longer intervals.

That's what the Birdman needs. Metal case too, right? The BLT (thanks, CV) is plastic.

– Proteus

Yep. Metal case. Mine survived long tours playing with Los Pirata in punk joints and crazy stages.

17

Yes, delay minimalist DCB would like slap only, small metal case. one swtch, 3 knobs at most. I don't need all these Outer Space Sounds, like some of em can get. Will read over all the comments. I know I have one of those PSA Boss AC things.. somewhere. That FAB Echo looks like a 2 knob thing. Cheap lookin' as dogs**t but worth a try

18

+1 for the Fab Echo! I use it for slap and it's great. I don't know if it's just me (I seem to remember reading about this in other places), but it feels like the highs get rolled off a bit when the pedal is engaged. Consequently, it has a darker, more vintage sound compared to my other delay pedals when set to slap settings.

An added bonus is that the two knobs aren't located on front (?) of the pedal, so that when I click the pedal on, there's no chance that I accidentally knock a knob with my feet. Once it's set, it's set!

I know a lot of people have concerns with a plastic enclosure, but the Fab series plastic is pretty sturdy, and I've never had problems with the switch going out despite gigging with the pedal for several years.

19

Carbon Copy, it'll get you slap back a plenty and isn't too sophisticated, or expensive, like Pigtronix's $500 multi fractal, mission control styled delay. Small, metal box, too.

20

Normally I'd recommend the Way Huge Aquapuss but that's actually very grainy. Stay away from it if you want clean repeats.

21

Ok if you have never had a Boss DM3 then I understand the other pedals recommended. Once you have had one you will never find a better more satisfying slap back pedal no matter what you pay for it. There is nothing better for slap back than a DM 3 nothing. Anyone that says different is just wrong. :)

23

I have a Boss DM2-W and I love it. It's a fantastic sounding delay and does a good slapback. Is it my favourite for slapback? No. For one thing it has a buffered bypass - some players are fine with that but in my ultra-minimal rig I hear a distinct difference between the sound of my guitar with the DM2-W in line and when it is removed. When I have the DM2-W inline I hear a slight muffling of my sound even when the effect is off. It's enough to be annoying so I rarely use my DM2-W which is a shame because I like it.

Just to add another pick into the smorgasbord I like the TC Electronic Flashback Mini. Dead stock it does great slapback. The stock sound is a TC digital delay and despite what fashionistas say about digital delay being cold and harsh nothing could be further from the truth about the little TC especially when used as slapback. If anything the hint of extra crispness helps it be heard as a rhythmic effect.

The other thing I LOVE about the little TC is that it is the best delay I have heard - including many very expensive delays - for not affecting your basic tone. It has the least "tone-suck" I have heard on a delay. You can pick them up very inexpensively if you are patient (under US$100) and the bonus is that you can also change the tone extensively via a software app available online for free.


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