Modern Gretsch Guitars

ya, because tone is all in the fingers, real players dont use effec…

76

Pink Floyd are hippies? So it's not upper middle class slick-over produced boomer/lawyer rock?

Well, that's a little hard on them.

Even after they got more successful than they ever imagined it was possible to be (thanks to Dark Side, the career-saver to end all career-savers), I wouldn't say they ever blanded out quite that badly. I kinda skipped over Woosh You Wuz Here and Aminals, because they didn't strike me as having made much progress (as in, you know, progressive rock) - but if we can forget for a moment the cultural juggernaut that The Wall became and listen to it with open ears, it's really a monumental and terrifying bit of stuff. Thankfully, Floyd always had Roger Waters' fondly-nursed neuroses to keep them from turning into, say, Boston or Jon Bovi. (Until they didn't have him any more.)

BUT. When I think of Pink Floyd, I do have a big warm spot for the psychedelic era, when they didn't have any idea what they were doing. Or rather, they had countless ideas but not the default formula they evolved when they became the bridge over troubled Waters.

My first PF album was Umma Gumma, by gawd, and I was absolutely the only kid on the block listening to that. They were still so underground then - and until Dark Side - that I literally didn't know anyone else (other than people I forced them on) listening to them. One of those bands so obscure in the milds of rural Ohio that I could lay claim to them as my own.

They were still lost in that commercial wilderness when Meddle came out, two years before Dark Side, and I had it to myself too. "Echoes" is one of my bedrock touchstones for a liquid spacious (and sometimes spacey) lead tone - just as Gilmour was evolving the signature tone destined to become such a convention that you can now buy pedals combining the effects he used to get you there in one convenient package.

Which isn't what the BS-301 was designed for. But that is the sort of musical place I'm suggesting the Mystwy Bwain takes me to. There are plenty of other similar examples; I used Pink Floyd just as shorthand...


So, yeah, early Floyd. Great as Dark Side and The Wall are, they're a different thing. Dark Side was the psychedelic jam-band thoroughly amateur soundscaping Floyd kids accidentally stumbling on something that would sell; Wish and Animals are gentrifying now-comfortable (if not yet numb) young men exploiting it, and The Wall is 30-something masters turning one guy's neurotic ambivalence about that success into the ultimate supremely-polished artifact of their unique art. But it's not near as much fun to listen to. I blame compression, plate reverb, endless studio time, and hired orchestras and choirs.

77

But you didn't quote the smiley in my post, making me look all serious and sour!

You have to forgive me. When I was a teen in the 80's, I was discovering the simultaneous joys of 1980's post punk angst, 1950's Rockabilly and the many links between them the late 70's and early 80's provided us, I had an older brother across the hall who was blasting "The Wall" and "Wish you were here" in his room, and the pretentious blandness of that compared to the racket I was digging just put me off "that" Pink Floyd forever.

My echo references became the Dead Kennedy's East Bay Ray's echoplex in "Holiday in Cambodia" and the almost comical slapback on obscure Rockabilly compilations, making the slick sounds from across the hall very bland and "old guy's music" indeed. IMO, YMMV, and all that! Carry on!

78

That's Affect, right?

– Suprdave

yes of course

79

But you didn't quote the smiley in my post, making me look all serious and sour!

Nah, I didn't take it that seriously. I just didn't post a smiley because I'm all serious and sour.

We all came from somewhere, musically, almost always at bottom a product of what we heard and then discovered for ourselves between the ages of 10 and 20 or so. Those experiences set our trajectories, and we might branch out from them - but we always loop back. No harm no foul in having different perspectives.

80

Yep, that's the nail on the head pretty much, the "between the age of 10 and 20", for better or for worse. Agreed.

81

Well, of COURSE for BETTER in MY objectively validated and aesthetically unassailable case!

82

Early Pink Floyd, not for the faint of heart!

So, the story goes even John Lennon wanted to figure out what chain of effects Syd was using...

Many of those songs will stay "cool" forever. They filled a space in time.

83

Now I love me some Pink Floyd hippy era music, as Ummagumma was my first Pink Floyd record,. But really, calling the decisions/motives in the studio made by some of the best musicians that England has to offer? For a little 180 opinion/insight, I just went to a Roger Waters concert where he played songs from Meddle to his latest, and the songs that hit hardest with the audience, who ranged from teenagers to one foot in the nursing home, were the songs from Animals, which to me were far from over produced, and that is exactly why I like that record. I feel it was the tone of the instruments that had progressed. Lke the way Gilmour set his squealing strat against a strummed acoustic. And that tone, combined with the simplicity of the songs on that record, is what appealed to me. It's funny how we all see and hear things differently. That Roger Waters show was one of the finest rock shows I've ever witnessed, but that has just as much to do with the technical production of the show as the music.

84

Pink Floyd has always had top notch live production values, from Ummagumma on. Quad PA, great FX, heller light shows. "Live at Pompeii" is amazing, as is the modern "Pulse". As an old lighting guy, their visuals, from projection, lasers, videos and lights, are the best I've seen. Still, "Meddle" and "Wish You Were Here" will always be favorites.

85

The lead solo on the song "Dogs" is one of the most expressive and emotive pieces of capital-"R" Rock Guitar-Goddery to come out of the '70s, just like pretty much anything else Mr. Gilmour did at the time.

I really don't understand the need to denigrate one style of music or the other to make a point, any more than I understand why this particular straw man argument thread periodically resurfaces.

Music is music, what appeals to one doesn't have to appeal to another, and knocking one style doesn't necessarily improve the standing of another.

Use an effect, don't use an effect, it makes no difference. There is no pedal that can hide a lack of skill. I know from whence I speak: the single most frequently requested guitar effect that I use is the "off" switch on the amp.

86

My brother tells a story about "Several Species of small furry Animals" ... I guess a guest at the dorm party couldn't handle it.

What was that experience called, a Bad Trip?

87

I read an article where Keith Richards says he doesn't use any pedals but I swear there sure is a lot of chorus on the some girls album.

– Suprdave

He says that but he was using an MXR Phase 100 and MXR Analog Delay (the old green one, not the carbon copy obviously) all over that Some Girls-Tatto You period.

88

I wonder what was used on Gimmie Shelter, for my money , one of the best atmospheric songs ever.

89

My echo references became the Dead Kennedy's East Bay Ray's echoplex in "Holiday in Cambodia" and the almost comical slapback on obscure Rockabilly compilations, making the slick sounds from across the hall very bland and "old guy's music" indeed. IMO, YMMV, and all that! Carry on! - Mr. WB

East Bay Ray used insane amouts of return on his echo, to great effect. Police Truck, Holiday In Cambodia, etc...would sound flat and one dimensional without it.

But Walter, No U2? ;)

90

Gimme Shelter is Reverb set at 3, Speed at 2, Intensity at 5...on any BlackFace Fender Combo Amp.

Refer to Post 47...

91

When I play live, I use pedals (Ernie Ball Vol, Empress Para EQ, Mythical Overdrive, Durham SexDrive, Voodoo Labs Analog Tremolo, Boss RE20, Dr Scientist Reverberator), and that's with both electrics and acoustics. In the studio, where I actually play more electric guitar, I rarely use anything more than a guitar plugged straight into an amp, although if i doesn't have reverb, I use a Fender tube reverb tank. Other than the RE20, I just use the pedals live to imitate my recorded amp tones.

92

I love this picture, it pokes the boneheads that love to dribble on that real players dont need effects, ad nauseam.. Here is a gretsch master who finds it so very important to include a multi effects analog unit ( the Roland RE-301 space echo which is comprised of a preamp w gain control, an analog chorus, a solid state reverb tank, and a mechanical tape echo) that he takes a small army of them on tour with him so that he is NEVER, EVER without one between his guitar and his amplifier.

Why??

Because that preamp and that echo is integral to HIS sound and playing. Just as this is the case w so many other famous guitarists.

This photo here is just perfect on so many levels, this is before the show at the hollywood bowl this evening here in southern california. #gretschmafia

– THE NOCTURNE BRAIN™ (actually loves hippies)

I feel this is a very pompous post. It's very much like someone saying "wood is wood" now I am a furniture maker and I find it slightly dismissing but mostly frustrating because if it is a client saying this then I need to either educate them or walk away, I have done both.

My brother works for Bare Knuckle Pickups and I can assure you tone may well be in the fingers because they are holding an instrument which has been crafted with care and attention and no two sound alike, the pickups alone even made in the same place don't even sound alike, how can you attribute that to any one player?

An artist can choose many colours to paint with or just one, sometimes they will use whatever media is close to them who are you to judge how they get their art out there? If you don't like it this is fair enough but calling someone out on using effects is just plain judgmental for the sake of it.

I play acoustic and I love the sound of it, I am not a big fan of effects but I defend the right of any musician to play what they want how they want too when they want to play it and I don't feel it necessary to judge them for it.

Not all pickups are created equal, not all guitars are created equal, not all players are created equal. My point is, what is your point? This guy is playing a gig with a bloody great grin on his face and you are sitting on the internet calling him out for what he is standing next to. I know who I would rather be.

93

But...Tavo isn't calling Brian out at ALL. Tavo LOVES Brian. He's praising that stack of gear, and celebrating the fact that Brian uses it.

MY point is, in your rush to snipe at someone on the Internet, you seem to have missed the point.

94

Tavo can be an acquired taste, and is often misunderstood, so don't feel bad, Andrew. But as Proteus said, he is a Setzer disciple and obsesses over tone so we don't have to, in ways we'll never know. And once you learn to speak Tavonian, your life will generally improve.

95

I feel this is a very pompous post. It's very much like someone saying "wood is wood" now I am a furniture maker and I find it slightly dismissing but mostly frustrating because if it is a client saying this then I need to either educate them or walk away, I have done both.

My brother works for Bare Knuckle Pickups and I can assure you tone may well be in the fingers because they are holding an instrument which has been crafted with care and attention and no two sound alike, the pickups alone even made in the same place don't even sound alike, how can you attribute that to any one player?

An artist can choose many colours to paint with or just one, sometimes they will use whatever media is close to them who are you to judge how they get their art out there? If you don't like it this is fair enough but calling someone out on using effects is just plain judgmental for the sake of it.

I play acoustic and I love the sound of it, I am not a big fan of effects but I defend the right of any musician to play what they want how they want too when they want to play it and I don't feel it necessary to judge them for it.

Not all pickups are created equal, not all guitars are created equal, not all players are created equal. My point is, what is your point? This guy is playing a gig with a bloody great grin on his face and you are sitting on the internet calling him out for what he is standing next to. I know who I would rather be.

– Andrew Dalziel

hmmmm... hmmmm... I forgive you in advance. You really have absolutely zero comprehension of what my post was about.

I've been a fan of Brian Setzer since I was in 9th grade. He was 20, I was 15. Changed my life when I got the Stray Cats import album in 1981. FWIW.. I play 2 gretsch guitars, a 99' G6120SSU Setzer Signature Gretsch and a 2016 G6120SSU-BK Setzer Signature Gretsch. In 2008 I started a pedal company and my first effects pedal was called the Brain Seltzer, in honor of Brian Setzers RE-301 space echo. (now called the DYNOBRAIN and ATOMIC BRAIN) The name of the pedal company thenocturnebrain.com was named after the song Hollywood Nocturne that Brian Setzer gave new life to in his Grammy winning album; Dirty Boogie. I've since made many pedals chasing after the sounds of Brian Setzer including an amp meant to grab the vibe of his 1963 Blonde fender bassman; its called the Nocturne Blondeshell.

My latest creation combines all the features of the vintage 1979 Roland RE-301 space echo, that Brian Setzer finds important to his sound. I call it the BS-301 Mystery Brain

I've had the privilege also to meet with him backstage (one time) and play his guitar, and he own several of my pedals, Sir..

So you have misunderstood my post indeed. I, Tavo Vega am possibly the BIGGEST fan on earth of Brian Setzer. His music and gear have been a focal point of existence.

96

And then there's this guy.

I'm really sorry, but I just couldn't resist.

Apologies to all.

For the record, I don't hold with the interview-ees views.

Edit: ...at all.

97

Well, you know... I'm not a fan of Bossanova's music. And I lug around a pedalboard and a reverb tank to gigs. But still, he's got a point.

98

And then there's this guy.

I'm really sorry, but I just couldn't resist.

Apologies to all.

For the record, I don't hold with the interview-ees views.

Edit: ...at all.

– lx

HA! Nice going lx as I read the article the other day and thought that's what this thread was about until I opened it and just read 3 months worth of input.

I love Brian Setzer's tone.....the many I have heard thru the past 30+ years and I love all of them.

Pedals? I guess one needs them to get a certain sound they are not getting otherwise. It's not rocket science. I like the raw '70s stuff of Johnny Winter just as much as his chorus pedal driven sound on his Erlwine Lazer in the '80s and beyond.

I don't use any effects other than the reverb dialed to 3 on my Tech 21 amp.

For me, Pink Floyd was great with every album a different creation apart from the previous. I like it and don't give a damn about the "artistic" critique anyone might have for or against anyone of the albums.

To Tavo.......I say Bravo! I do not own any of his pedals but I want 2 of them. GAS for a guitar has kept funds for effects at a minimum thru the years.

And while I love Gregor Hilden, I think whatever he uses tends to make most guitars sound the same. To this extent, I think he loses the character of whatever guitar he is playing because many of his youtube clips tonally sound the same. I still really like his playing though and that is something neither the guitar or effects can do for him.

Here's a clip of some great playing but his B.B. King Epi sounds the same as 8 other youtube videos I just watched where he played Strats, various LPs, and other hollow-bodies.

99

"If the player has soul, the guitar doesn't have to..." Proteus.

One of the rare times Chet performed without a Gretsch.....and he doesn't seem to sound any less 'Chet' does he? It can be debated all day whether tone at least partially, comes from the fingers, but this clip shows us Chet's "sound" certainly doesn't depend on him using his Gretsch guitar.


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