Modern Gretsch Guitars

String Bending / bad guitar again?

151

I'll post the melody and chords (both of them) later.

I'm afraid it's based on an old American folk tune with such a perfectly infectious melody it's a shame it's no longer politically correct enough even to reveal the title.

152

And, lx, Green and I are like that. He knows I mean no dispespect.

153

i can't wait. i wanna do a metal version

154

Melitas do NOT sound dead. They sustain great and the plastic gives low friction on the strings and makes the Bigsby work better.
You have to get the flat screws though. Nobody ever kept the thumbscrews.
Factory pins are just allen screws that unscrew.

156

If the strings pop out, just file the grooves deeper.

157

My Melita rings out just fine, and the flat screws are much easier on the Palm

158

I was able to sink the screws using a hex.

Is it okay to use painters tape under the bridge to create some abrasion and keep the melita bridge in place? I don't have anything else. Will it ruin the finish in any way over long periods of time?

Something odd: the strings pulled the melita bridge to the treble side. This resulted in there being a lot more shoulder on the bass side of the fretboard than then treble. I'm not sure why there is such a pull to one side.

159

Remember..... I bend more than bugs you wiggle I bend more than bugs you wiggle I bend more than bugs you wiggle A-wiggle bigger buggle digger doo.

Did you try oil on the nut yet Did you try oil on the nut yet Did you try oil on the nut yet A-wiggle bigger buggle digger doo.

160

I was able to sink the screws using a hex.

Is it okay to use painters tape under the bridge to create some abrasion and keep the melita bridge in place? I don't have anything else. Will it ruin the finish in any way over long periods of time?

Something odd: the strings pulled the melita bridge to the treble side. This resulted in there being a lot more shoulder on the bass side of the fretboard than then treble. I'm not sure why there is such a pull to one side.

– gmascis

As far as the tape, maybe, maybe not. Whatever you use, you won't be able to see it. The reason I suggested sinking only the treble side was because that was the side where the intonation was off. Leaving the bass side screw pinned, would keep the strings from pulling the bridge. The bridge can pivot. The reason for the pulling might be Bigsby misalignment.

161

I would not put any tape under the bridge. Instead, I would put some violin bow rosin under the bridge. The tackiness of the rosin will hold the bridge base in place.

162

My experience with the modern Melittas (Syncro-sonics) is they do indeed sound quite dead . I make my own one piece ebony bridges with a compensated bone saddle and the difference is huge. This was on my 58 country club which is the most straight up electric guitar I have as it has the heavy trestles. Even the difference between the Syncro-sonic and the rosewood bridge from my convertible on the 58 club was huge. I just went and tried the swap again to make sure I wasn't talking out of my @$$. Solid ebony = ringing, clear sustain. Melita = muffled and uneven sounding. Both acoustically and electrically. Maybe it's just the modern ones. Too me it just makes sense. Plastic and metal with lot's of parts versus a one piece uber hardwood and bone.

163

As far as the tape, maybe, maybe not. Whatever you use, you won't be able to see it. The reason I suggested sinking only the treble side was because that was the side where the intonation was off. Leaving the bass side screw pinned, would keep the strings from pulling the bridge. The bridge can pivot. The reason for the pulling might be Bigsby misalignment.

– Bluecap

The reason for the pulling might be Bigsby misalignment.

Thanks.

That's what I thought it was, and I wrote it on my checklist before sending it to Gretsch for them to look at, and they returned it back saying it's on correctly. It's really not (just by eye you can tell it's tilted), and the pulling confirms that.

How does one go about aligning it? I probably don't have the skills to do this, so it's a real bummer Gretsch sent it back like this.

I wonder if this is at least a partial cause of the intonation problems and pinging/binding sound as well. If the Bigsby is pulling downward due to misalignment, it might be causing binding at the saddle/bigsby.

164

My bridges are pinned on the bass side only and it works fine My bigsby on my 64 Tennesssean is a half inch off center towards the treble side and has always been . Not a problem.

166

Here's a thread on realigning a Bigsby...

http://gretschpages.com/for...

– Bluecap

Thanks, so a washer is the least invasive method. I'll look into it or bring it to someone.

I wonder if this is why the high E string feels so tight. I saw someone else mention (I think in this thread) their high E string felt unusually tight on bends.

Would the Bigsby pulling downward (toward the treble side) cause this? Would it cause the binding/pinging noise I keep hearing?

It's dark out now because of daylight savings, but tomorrow I'll try to get a picture of the Bigsby alignment.

167

A string tuned to pitch would have the same amount of tension regardless of any other factors. Pinging = binding somewhere and releasing; most likely the nut. It would be great to see a few pics, there's quite a few folks here willing to help.

168

Thanks. I'll get some in the daylight tomorrow.

169

I was able to sink the screws using a hex.

Is it okay to use painters tape under the bridge to create some abrasion and keep the melita bridge in place? I don't have anything else. Will it ruin the finish in any way over long periods of time?

Something odd: the strings pulled the melita bridge to the treble side. This resulted in there being a lot more shoulder on the bass side of the fretboard than then treble. I'm not sure why there is such a pull to one side.

– gmascis

Most likely because your bigsby (if you have one on the guitar) is slightly offset to the high e. What happens is that the average Force vector of the total string pull on the Bigsby is always more to the treble E side. The bigsby needs to be set up not to allow this to happen. That is why you always need to align your bigsby such that it's center axis points about to the D-String on the nut depending on your scale length to counter the String force vector pointing in the treble e direction . That way the Resultant Force Vector on the Strings points strait back at the position between the g and D strings. It's simple and about always happens with Bigsbys or even a slight misdrilling at the mounting can cause such havoc. It could also be your bigsby hinge that is loose on one side that the other. I had the same bigsby troubles you mentioned on each of my bigsby guitars over the years and it is easy to fix. To summarize, what happens if your bigsby is out of alignment is 1) that you set up your bridge to have strings evenly spaced over fretboard. Then when you bend,.... all strings move down towards the high e-string (because the resultant downward force vector moves your bridge towards the high E) 2) Since the strings moved down to the high E, crazy out of tune problems occur after just a few bigsby whacks. 3) Intonation gets way off at frets above 12 as the strings are now at a sharpish angle across fretboard and does not match up with the center line anymore. The string now crosses frets at an angle. In fact you have now a couple of percent more string length across the same FRETS!!!! That is why your intonation gets whacky at 15th fret because even small position changes at the higher frets creates orders more cents of detune.That is why the frets are so close together up there since only small changes distance creates large pitch changes. 4) Unfortunately pinning was a bad thing to do IMO. You always first fix your bigsby alignment THEN if you still have problems only then you will pin. The pinning might fix you in a bad intonation scenario which only a custom bridge will fix.

A bigsby that is not alligned properly will alway have a force vector not pointing to the middle of the nut and you will do what you want you will always pay with tuning problems and strings that are lying to one side of the fretboard.

I did my Angelico a month ago wth the same problem you describe and it is now in balance and plays perfect.

170

Thanks, good info, Retnev.

Is it acceptable that Gretsch returned it to me like this after sending it to them and listing "Bigsby looks cooked" as one of the notes? Joe's response (I'm reading/typing it off the paperwork): "Bigsby is mounted correctly. However, replaced rosewood bridge base and reset intonation to enclosed string set."

I sent the same .10 D'Addario strings I always use.

So did they try to fix this problem by moving the bridge base somehow? I just don't get it.

171

Seven pages of posts and not one Pic of the guitar??? I don't get it? Here is a pic of my cat Sammy Sam, he has an injured paw.

172

Get better, Sammy the Cat!

173

Does your cat squeak when you bend it? I see a lazer, only sharks get lazers. Did you send it to joe at gretsch? Did he pin it? Does the cat go flat after bending it? Did you file its nut? Lube its nut? The cat looks like it has a twist. How does the car sound after modification?

174

We've speculated from one end of this damn guitar to the other. It's all useless without any photos, video or audio.

I mean, my theory that the pickups were plated too much, and the extra magnetic field is interfering with the ability for it to stay in tune carries as much weight as any other theory, since we're all just guessing and haven't seen or heard anything to tell us what's really going on.

175

Most likely because your bigsby (if you have one on the guitar) is slightly offset to the high e. What happens is that the average Force vector of the total string pull on the Bigsby is always more to the treble E side. The bigsby needs to be set up not to allow this to happen. That is why you always need to align your bigsby such that it's center axis points about to the D-String on the nut depending on your scale length to counter the String force vector pointing in the treble e direction . That way the Resultant Force Vector on the Strings points strait back at the position between the g and D strings. It's simple and about always happens with Bigsbys or even a slight misdrilling at the mounting can cause such havoc. It could also be your bigsby hinge that is loose on one side that the other. I had the same bigsby troubles you mentioned on each of my bigsby guitars over the years and it is easy to fix. To summarize, what happens if your bigsby is out of alignment is 1) that you set up your bridge to have strings evenly spaced over fretboard. Then when you bend,.... all strings move down towards the high e-string (because the resultant downward force vector moves your bridge towards the high E) 2) Since the strings moved down to the high E, crazy out of tune problems occur after just a few bigsby whacks. 3) Intonation gets way off at frets above 12 as the strings are now at a sharpish angle across fretboard and does not match up with the center line anymore. The string now crosses frets at an angle. In fact you have now a couple of percent more string length across the same FRETS!!!! That is why your intonation gets whacky at 15th fret because even small position changes at the higher frets creates orders more cents of detune.That is why the frets are so close together up there since only small changes distance creates large pitch changes. 4) Unfortunately pinning was a bad thing to do IMO. You always first fix your bigsby alignment THEN if you still have problems only then you will pin. The pinning might fix you in a bad intonation scenario which only a custom bridge will fix.

A bigsby that is not alligned properly will alway have a force vector not pointing to the middle of the nut and you will do what you want you will always pay with tuning problems and strings that are lying to one side of the fretboard.

I did my Angelico a month ago wth the same problem you describe and it is now in balance and plays perfect.

– retnev

But................................his bridge base is pinned so it won't move side to side


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