The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Modern Gretsch Guitars: Shootout: Duncan vs Gretsch Dynas, Blackface vs Tweed, and a pedal.

Shootout: Duncan vs Gretsch Dynas, Blackface vs Tweed, and a pedal.

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- Rated: 24 ↑
Feb 4, 2008 10:34 p.m. TomfromPA:

My 6128TSP is a Dyna Gakki built guitar (June,2005) and has a very thick spacer underneath the bridge pickup. Based on the photos it looks like Proteus' DuoJet came with a thin spacer.

I wonder how the guitar would sound with the top of the pickup surface mounted at 3/16 & 1/4 inch below the strings and the pole pieces set nearly flush to the pup surface as per Setzer's sketch? In my case there was a huge difference in the sound between stock DynaSonics and Seymour Duncans when both were installed at the same height specs. It wasn't subtle at all.

Can anybody think of a reason why Gretsch would be inconsistent with stock pickup mounting heights?
- Rated: 13 ↑
Feb 4, 2008 10:37 p.m. Rex:

Once again you've outdone yourself Pro! Thanks!
- Rated: 41 ↑
Feb 4, 2008 10:41 p.m. J(et)D:

Well, this thread wouldn't really interest me if it wasn't for Wishin and I "making a trade" last year.

When the DuoJet hit my place, it was a new toy, and time to play it and start "fine tuning".

Wishin's observations are the same as mine with the spacers installed. My bridge pup gets "nastier" now, and both pups just have more "beef".

I've listened to the clips several times tonight, and I have to say that stock Dynas, with spacers, are doing the trick for me, based on what I'm getting out of the clips.

Maybe I was expecting a bigger difference than the clips are revealing. I've experienced the ceramic Filter vs TV Classic improvement, and it was a very notable improvement to my ears.

The SD's are different, but they are not making me say OMG!

Right now, if I were to lay out $450 for a pair of anyone's pups, I would really want to say OMG, WHAT a difference.

I'm not hearing it today.

Edit: Tom, my Duo is an '06 "JT" with reasonably thick plastic spacers on both pups.

I raised the top of the neck pup to sit almost equal to the fretboard level. I did this based on pics from Paul, and a few others on the board.

Most shots of vintage Jets have the pups "right up there", so I thought that I would give it a try.

I adjusted each pole piece down, down, down, until things didn't sound right, and then started raising them to hit that sweet spot.

One string at a time, one pup at a time, and tried to get the most "even" sound for a good string balance on chords.
- Rated: 55 ↑
Feb 4, 2008 10:45 p.m. otterbean:

I'm going to have to hand the victory to the stock dynasonic pickups for the chime factor. Sounded like a far more versatile set of pickups in my opinion. I also liked the variety of tones you got with the stockers. Nice and complex. Seemed like the dynamics of your picking just came to life more with them than the Duncans.

If I was going for a nice rock vibe, the Duncans would take the prize. I'm just not headed in that direction currently. I thought the response of the pickups was far more even than the stock pickups.

As stated before, the stock dynas are winners in my opinion.
- Rated: 23 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 2:28 a.m. Shuggie101:

First off - great playing Proteus and thanks for this.

First listen I was inclined towards the stocks but after a short while I gravitated towards the SDs. They are obviously meatier and perhaps a touch less tight in the lows, but despite their slightly darker tone I hear more transparency and sensitivity.

In other words I can really sense your fingers on the strings and the way you're hitting them with that pick. A bit less jangle for sure, but I think you could compensate by turning up the treble on the amp. I'm not convinced you could dial in that meatiness with the stock pickups using eq.

Listening to guitars in isolation is fine, but as a sound engineer I'd also consider how they might cope when the drums are banging and the bass is pumping. My assessment is that the SDs would have more presence and power without resorting to eq and compression.

But ultimately it's never just about the sound - it's also about the way the pickups, amp, strings etc etc make you FEEL when you're playing.
- Rated: 50 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 6:17 a.m. Ratrod:

I'm in the Duncan camp on this one. (Well that's a first for me.) To me they sound more growly, raw and even twangier. They remind me a bit more of Brian Setzer's vintage sparkle Jet.

But $450.-? That's a bit too much, I think.

I wonder how the future TV Jones Dynasonics will compare or would it be better to have your stock Dyna's rewound to around the 11K mark.
- Rated: 29 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 6:23 a.m. Danman:

Thanks Proteus,

Great shoot out. I have been trying to figure out if I wanted to change the pick ups on my 57 jet firebird. It is hard to get an usefull answer from people you ask. This is something you really have to hear.

The pick ups on my jet are a bit weak sounding and the guitar is a bright one already. So it doesn't really have the fullness I want in a guitar.

I think I really could use the extra beef and more full and rounded tone the seymours give you. But they really are expensive though.

I can imagine that if you find the seymours to be too full sounding, you can adjust the tone to your liking on the amp. Of course this was just one setting. And of course the sound was set to the stock pick ups. If you had done the shoot out the other way around you would get different sounds.

Thanks for the good work!
- Rated: 30 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 8:51 a.m. Suprdave5150:

I like the variation of both. Depending on what you're wanting to play. My ears prefer the Stock Dynas through the Princeton.

I don't know but it sounds like you were having more fun playing that mix, at least to me it sounds that way.

Good Shtuff Mr. P
- Rated: 25 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 10:29 a.m. senojnad:

Proteus -- Another extraordinary effort by you!! Great shootout and BEAUTIFUL playing!
- Rated: 25 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 10:38 a.m. senojnad:

Danman said: The pick ups on my jet are a bit weak sounding and the guitar is a bright one already. So it doesn't really have the fullness I want in a guitar.

Danman -- My original reaction to my Duo Jet with stock Dynas was similar to yours. They seemed a bit weak or thin. I also had the hum.

In my case, changing to the Seymour Duncans made a HUGE difference, at least to my ears. As TomfromPA has said -- fuller, better articulation (especially in the middle strings, more power or kick, and VERY quiet. For me, the change was much more dramatic than my previous upgrade to TV Jones Classics on my 6122.

My Bose computer speakers (Companion 3 Multimedia) really don't do justice to these shootout comparisons. One of these days I'd like to wire my computer through my Boston Accoustics living room speakers!
- Rated: 45 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 11:07 a.m. dignan:

This is like trying to choose between Ginger and Mary Ann, isn't it?
- Rated: 28 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 11:28 a.m. cyclopssam:

cool beans!, WELL.... one man's mids are a nother man's mud.i did enjoy the stocks on a whole a LOT better. i wish you could have thown in GFS newyork II'S to realy stir things up
- Rated: 6 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 11:48 a.m. Jopapa:

If it were me, I'd keep the stock neck pup and put the SD in the bridge. Thanks for another great shootout.
- Rated: 25 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 12:27 p.m. Dawg:

Proteus - thanks. I thought that the SDs had a fuller sound, but the stock PUPs sound nice too - which is something i've always felt. However, when cranked a little, they lose that certain 'something'..

Anyhow, I ordered a set of SDs today.

The stock ones have that great shimmery quality, but I'd also love to have that richer 'thraaaang' tone similar to what Cliff Gallup got on Gene Vincent's 'Five Days Five Days' - i'm just wondering if the volume is backed off on the SDs do they 'shimmer' a little more?
- Rated: 29 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 12:56 p.m. Danman:

senojnad: said: Danman -- My original reaction to my Duo Jet with stock Dynas was similar to yours. They seemed a bit weak or thin. I also had the hum.

Hi Senojnad,

Thanks for your reaction. I was really surprised about the difference. And it is good to hear that confirmed by others. I don't find it easy making this decision. I would rather like to keep the originals in but in this case I have the feeling it would really improve the guitar. The pick ups are a bit too screachy for me now and the duncans just seem much more balanced. I can use the fuller sound and more power. And of course the buzz under fluorecent light I can miss too.

Now I just have to get some money to buy them
- Rated: 19 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 12:57 p.m. TyPierce:

Leave it to Proteus to answer a question that's been bugging the GDP forever!

Or, at least... provide the sound clips to glean our own answers from. I thought they both sounded great, albeit in somewhat different ways. If money were no object, I'm inclined to say I'd stay with the stock - something about the shimmer and twang they have without coming across as thin is very honest-sounding to me. The Duncans definitely growl more, but that's totally a matter of taste.

When you factor in the cash, though, no contest. Stock Dynas, hands down.

I'm really interested to hear your full disclosure, Proteus, seein's how you're the man who plunked down the coin for the Duncans.

And fantastic playing, by the way! I really enjoyed the Em blues - very Boston Legal-esque, which I mean in a very good way, and I kept it looping here at work for a good while.

And I vastly prefer the Tweed to the Princeton - which I didn't know going into this thread.
- Rated: 6 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 12:58 p.m. Jopapa:

Dignan, Just a quick observation. What some people see as close choices, others see as no-brainers. My wife and young daughter are overly intrigued by the Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie/Jennifer Aniston love triange. The other day, they were saying that Aniston was wronged and that she was just as pretty as Jolie. They asked me if I would leave Aniston for Jolie. I replied, waaaay too quickly, "Course." What's worse is that I laughed (because it struck me as such a no-brainer). That didn't sit well with either, but for different reasons.
- Rated: 8 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 1:09 p.m. BigA:

Thanks for the clips, Proteus - this is great!

I like them both, but the extra growl in the SD pickups wins it for me. The stock ones sound much smoother. And I prefer the Princeton amp.
- Rated: 205 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 1:09 p.m. Proteus:

Well, Jennifer is Mary Ann is the stock girl-next-door Dynas, of course.

And Angelina is Ginger is the hot, full rockin' Seymours, I suppose.

Which, oddly, is as good a way of putting it in perspective as any other.

I'm still evaluating.
- Rated: 27 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 1:10 p.m. Shelton's Guitars:

The original 50s Dynas were pretty rude pickups.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WLMMVM/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk23?ie=UTF8&qid=120...
- Rated: 45 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 1:44 p.m. dignan:

Wait, I always kinda preferred Mary Ann, but if Aniston is a stock Dyna maybe she'd be hotter with Courtney Cox is a 1meg pot I'd still prefer Angelinoh my brain hurts.
- Rated: 19 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 1:48 p.m. TyPierce:

Proteus said: Well, Jennifer is Mary Ann is the stock girl-next-door Dynas, of course.

And Angelina is Ginger is the hot, full rockin' Seymours, I suppose.
I had no idea those comparisons would be so apt... but there they are!
- Rated: 40 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 1:50 p.m. Hobie:

I found the Duncans richer, and more to my liking, the Dyna's sounded, in comparison, a bit lean. But I gotta say that's a bit weird as I love the Dyna's on a hollowbody, and yet when I had a chance to play them on a Jet I wasn't that fussed by them.

The Duncans are rich and opulent in comparison if I was to label what was only a small difference; more body, timbre etc.

As to whether I would stump up $450 for this; well I would never have considered it in the first place given how much impressed I always have been of the dynas on hollowbodies.

Now a blind listening would be interesting to see if we really can consistently hear the difference.
- Rated: 26 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 2:23 p.m. texarock:

Walter the Wise said: I've spent almost an hour at a music store with a recent dyna jet, and I absolutely loved the guitar, but thought it sounded a lot more like a tele than one of my best friends' 50's jet, a guitar I'm pretty familiar with. Nice tone, but not the oomph and big presence I expected from a Dyna Jet, a lot more like Fender single coils.

Walter, you hit the nail on the head for anyone who is curious about "stock vintage" vs. "new stock".

I don't have so much experience with newer guitars, but old DeArmond jets sound huge.
- Rated: 9 ↑
Feb 5, 2008 2:34 p.m. JohnnyFriendly:

Texarock - yours is EXACTLY the kind of experience that we (well, me anyway) value tremendously.

The big question is really this: how close to the originals do you feel the SDs sound based on Proteus's sound clip?