The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Modern Gretsch Guitars: guitars worth getting

guitars worth getting

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- Rated: 18 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 8:46 a.m. F107plus5:

One problem with this thread is where it's at.

One main thrust of it seemed to be the question of the Electros, as queried in the opening post.

Bringing up Electros in this part of the forum is kinda like asking about FIATS in a Ferrari dealership.
- Rated: 3 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 9:16 a.m. BenBradshaw:

while i'm glad you all are chiming in to tell me how much you love your guitars and all that, what i was specifically looking for was hard facts to convince me that Gretsch guitars really are great.

Example: how they are made and why that process makes them strong/resonant/age well and so on.

like how Proteus mentioned the ply content of the wood.

or how F107plus5 mention his guitar surviving being dropped several times.
- Rated: 3 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 9:24 a.m. me:

What a great question. Seriously. I've been a Tele player for almost 20 years. When I decided to take the leap to a higher end guitar, a Ric and a Gretsch were the only two on my list. And I was a newcomer to the whole Gretsch thing. I quickly converted. I've found a Gretsch (I play a Duo Jet btw) to be a bit more versatile. It feels less delicate ... which is great for a more aggressive player like me. It can do sparkle/jangle type clean, if you want. It's aggresive. It has style.

As for how they're made. It feels like an instrument a lot of care went into. It doesn't feel or look assembly line. There are no flaws. There's nothing to tweak. Sure, you may want to swap out bridges or pickups. But that's what's great about a Gretsch. It can be suited to your personal style. There are so many options to suit Rockabilly, Punks, Country, Rock ... any kind of music you can think of can be played on a Gretsch. And there are just as many options to make it more effective for that style. Hell ... just look at how many different looks you can get. Compare a Roundup to a Penguin. Or a Falcon to a Corvette. Anyone can find their style with a Gretsch.

For me, I really wanted a pro line. So I was willing to wait. I ended up finding a used one for a song. If you're really interested in a Gretsh, do a little more research. I guarantee you'll fall in love the way I did.

Best of luck.
- Rated: 8 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 9:35 a.m. Ripley1046:

I may not have the technical knowledge of some of the previous posts, but as a 5120 owner I can tell you that you won't be disappointed for the money. Feedback has never really been an issue, I had a few squawks here and there, but I was playing with a punk rock cover band and playing really loud.

To me you can't really compare the Electromatics to the Pro Lines, they are just two different monsters. Both lines are excellent in their own respect. I've been extremely happy with my 5120, it's the only guitar that I've owned that made me want to go buy another so fast. I really want to go get a cherry stained 5120, just because they're so cheap for what you get.

Also, a lot of people swap the pups as soon as possible in these guitars, but for me the tone of the Gretschbucker is awesome for what I play. I'm not saying that I won't ever swap `em, but you don't need to change them out right away either. Good luck, and yes you should definitely go buy a Gretsch, no matter what model you choose. They're all great.
- Rated: 30 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 9:55 a.m. Wishinfora(nother)Falcon:

I'm not really going to get into the "convince you that it's quality" and most certainly not the Electro vs Pro Line thing again. And tone is all up to you.

I just think that the proof is in the puddin'. Go put your hands on a couple!! Buy from MF and send them back. Take a road trip to find them. Whatever it takes. I don't think you can quite understand really, until you play them for yourself. I didn't. But I do now!!
- Rated: 212 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 10:26 a.m. Proteus:

Well, look. On "fine musical instruments" – of the hollow/resonant type – there's a fine line between durability and response.

Carve a violin to hold up to student abuse, with a top 3/8" thick, and you'll be able to throw it across the bus, pick it up, and fiddle. Don't try that with a Stradivarius.

Great acoustic guitars are known to reQUIRE neck resets at some point during their lives. Lightly braced tops, which sound great, commonly belly.

There's a difference in the sheer durability of great brass instruments by comparison to their thicker, deader student versions.

For great acoustic resonance, these instruments simply have to have thinner/lighter components to make their noise.

Now Gretschs aren't hand-carved luthier-built jazz guitars; they fall in the tradition of laminated archtops, as developed from the 30s forward, to combine a reasonable degree of resonance with reasonable feedback resistance in an electric environment, with as great "strength" and durability as could be had with those considerations.

But in such instruments there's always a compromise between robust construction to take abuse, and more delicate construction techniques to optimize acoustic response.

Gretsch guitars would have NO following, regardless how durably they were built, if they didn't have a distinctive, compelling, "pleasing" sound. That sound results from the way all the components in the guitar work together: the species of top wood (all hollow Gretschs have maple backs & sides); the thickness and ply of the woods; the dimensions and depth of the body, and whether it is open or closed; the size, shape, and placement of bracing and sound posts; the pressure of the Bigsby on the top (or not); the type and material of bridge on the floating base; the material and type of the base; the pickups and wiring, and the way they're mounted; the material chosen for the fingerboard.

Combinations of these elements have evolved over time into the model line now available, each guitar with its own thang. One indicator of the way all these components are balanced in a Gretsch, and how they interact, is that changing any of them produces a discernible change in the character of the guitar.

A Gretsch hollowbody is not as indestructible as a Tele. A JET isn't as indestructible as a Tele. You could make the guitars more durably sound by overbuilding, but you'd decrease the "Great Gretsch Sound"ness of the guitars.

Vintage-era Gretschs (50s-60s) occasionally had their construction issues, some of which were evident at the time, and some which emerged as the guitars aged: necks which gradually pulled and needed reset, rotting binding, construction quirks resulting from hand-manufacture and less than perfect quality control. But a great number have survived in great playing condition 50-60 years later.

Modern Gretschs are built to a level of physical durability at least comparable with any professional hollowbody you can name – Gibson, Ibanez, Guild, Yamaha, all the usual suspects. While some guitars, mostly a few years ago, appear to have had slight "neck humps" above the 12th fret, I recall no reports of necks twisting, bodies collapsing, or guitars self-destructing.

They ARE built in Japan, and are transported halfway across the world and stored and reshipped, with many changes in environmental conditions. By the time they're sold to a customer, truss rods and frets sometimes need attention as part of a set-up. You can trawl the GDP for other reports of QC problems.

Now, modern Gretschs haven't been around for 50 or 60 years yet, so we can't say for sure they're going to stand up over that period. But there's no apparent reason they shouldn't, lots of observers think modern Gretschs are better-built and more consistent than they've ever been, and there's a general consensus that fit, finish, and quality control exceeds that of most other brands on the market. "Gretsch's new golden age" is a phrase we've heard.

I can tell you that I've bought several, and unboxed dozens of, new Gretschs, ordered sight-unseen from dealers and over the internet, and been consistently impressed. Out of mine, one needed fret attention low on the neck; the company stood behind it.

The pro-line instruments are built entirely by hand, one at a time, at Terada in Japan. This is a small operation, much less a factory than a guitar workshop. I know a guy who was product manager for Alvarez, Yairi, Electra, and Westone through the 70s, 80s, and half the 90s, with wide first-hand, onsite experience of Asian guitar manufacturers. When I mention Masao Terada to him, he says the man's a genius and no one builds better guitars.

We've had a recent thread linking to a great photo tour of Terada by Gretsch...maybe someone will chime in with that link.

But all in all, you seem to be digging for some kind of reassurance or challenging for "proof" we're having trouble figuring out how to give you. Number one, before Gretsch's quality or durability matter, you have to like the sound of the guitars. If you don't, none of our enthusiasm can (or should) convince you.

Once you're infected by that sound and discover the unique voice and response of the instruments, you can be assured that they're built to a high standard, with nothing to fear from a quality standpoint.
- Rated: 49 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:07 p.m. Ric12string:

Proteus he say: That sound results from the way all the components in the guitar work together: the species of top wood (all hollow Gretschs have maple backs & sides);...
Hmmm...does your Country Club have a maple top, Prot-man?
- Rated: 212 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:08 p.m. Proteus:

Nope, is sprucen. Is HOLY! Sprucetop sprucetop!
- Rated: 54 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:24 p.m. tartan phantom:

Proteus said: Nope, is sprucen. Is HOLY! Sprucetop sprucetop!

Proteus owns my personal Holy Grail of Gretsch guitars-- a Caddy green Spruce top Country Club with Dynas! Maybe someday when I win the lottery...

As they say on Wayne's World, "We're not worthy!"
- Rated: 49 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:29 p.m. Ric12string:

Ben, forget all of the technical talk about Gretsches. It is all fine and good, and it is all very important detail information...eventually. But, for now, the most important thing that you can do is to find one and play it. That, in the final analysis, is all that matters...how it feels and how it sounds.

My sense on it is that, just like the rest of us, if you do that, you will immediately understand why it is "worth" getting a Gretsch.

At that point, then the decisions about Pro line v. Electromatic, poly v. lacquer, Dynas v. Filtertrons, etc., will be half the fun in selecting the guitar.
- Rated: 212 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:29 p.m. Proteus:

And a movable Chet-arm Bigsby, don't forget it!

But pffle - you could trade your OWN grail guitar, which was quite economicable to acquire, as I recall! - for such a thing. Probably in a heartbeat.

I mean, to someone. I'd love to have a piney Jet like unto yours, EVEN WITH THE G-BRAND (which beLONGS on that guitar as on no other)...but not more than I revere my Club.

But just sayin'!
- Rated: 49 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:34 p.m. Ric12string:

Proteus, are you offering to trade your CC for Tartan's Pinetop Roundup?
- Rated: 212 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:45 p.m. Proteus:

I am not.
- Rated: 49 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:47 p.m. Ric12string:

I didn't think so!
- Rated: 22 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:55 p.m. Konrad:

Hmmm. Well, I've banged up/dropped/abused my Silverjet and she still sounds great.

I mean really great. I played Strats, Teles, a Ric and a Gold Top Epiphone (that was surprisingly an excellent guitar) and I got rid of them all for a Gretsch Silverjet and a Reverend Horton Heat.

You just don't understand until you play them.

And actually, when I first tried them, I still didn't understand. It's like they were completely foreign to me after so many years wrestling with a Strat. Except for Silverjets. They just seemed right. Now I've come round to the big hollowbody with the RHH model. No regrets. VERY, VERY COOL and a lot of fun.

These are the kinds of guitars that make you think up new licks.

K
- Rated: 54 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 12:58 p.m. tartan phantom:

But Proteus, I filled in the "G" brand with "plastic wood", sanded the finish down to bare wood and put skull knobs on it! Ripped out those lame Dynasonics and put in two big black EMG active humbuckers. I also put white teflon tape over those dumb cowboy fretboard markers and made a nifty belt out of the leather body binding-- are you sure you don't want to trade?
- Rated: 212 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 1:15 p.m. Proteus:

Gosh, you've done all THAT, TP? In THAT case...

Back to the subject. Konrad's and the other guys' points are well taken - until you PLAY a Gretsch (start somewhere and play as many as you can), you can't get the vibe at all. I went into Gretschdom fairly skeptical that they could really be that DIFFERENT – I wasn't concerned about "better", or about quality – but it didn't take more than one or two for me to realize they truly are. (And this was after 35 years of familiarity with most other electrics.)

Some were more alien to me than others; it took me probably nine months to come to terms with the Dyna Jet. From the beginning, there was something about it, some fascinating complexity in the tone and response, that kept me from giving up on it. Its combination of banjo-dry plunkiness, warmth, sparkle, clarity, twang, and aggression was unusual enough to keep me involved. Maybe it's that it LOOKED enough like a Les Paul that my expectations were whacked: with its chambered body, floating bridge, trapeze/Bigsby tailpiece, and Dynasonics it could hardly sound LESS like a Lester.

I think the adjustment was gradual - there was no breakthrough moment. But by the time I used it at a gig, it became indispensable. I must make some adjustments to my technique when playing it, somehow handle it differently - but I don't know what. I play the same stuff on it I'd play on any guitar, and it all WORKS ... but on the Jet it all has a different effect, which I love. It's a cold-dead-hands guitar now.

I adjusted to most of the others much more quickly, almost instantly - though it took putting flatwounds on the Dyna 6120 and Tenny Rose HiLo to have instant breakthroughs with those guitars.

And in every case, yes, they do something to your playing. You hear yourself differently: there's more clarity and articulation around individual notes within chords, and individual notes in single-note lines MEAN more. Gretschs have unquestionably made me a better - more musical - player.

It's the effect you'll notice first: the dawning awareness that these guitars ARE different, then hearing tones you'd never thought you'd hear yourself make, then figuring out how to fit yourself to the guitar, and the guitar to your playing.

After all THAT you can start figuring out how the construction and various components contribute to those effects.

Yes, of course the quality of construction matters. But it's meaningless till you really "get" the quality of the sound.
- Rated: 3 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 8:58 p.m. BenBradshaw:

well, i have to say that you have been very helpful with my research Proteus. you must spend a lot of time thinking and reading about all this.

either way, someone posted a bunch of mp3's of themself playing a bunch of different Gretsch variations through the same amp and i sat through them last night. i really felt floored by the clean sound.

the thing that shocked me the most was the Dyna. normally i don't favor single coil pickups, but those tones were unreal. i am really excited now to test one (or many) out.
- Rated: 11 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 10:26 p.m. reddog:

I had a strat copy many years ago, Got my First Gretsch, never played anything else. (except bass, keys, and sax)
- Rated: 54 ↑
Nov 17, 2008 11:06 p.m. tartan phantom:

BenBradshaw said: the thing that shocked me the most was the Dyna. normally i don't favor single coil pickups, but those tones were unreal.

Some day Dynasonics will rule the world. There's nothing like the clear, articulate punchiness of Dynas.
- Rated: 16 ↑
Nov 18, 2008 10:06 a.m. Gigatron:

Proteus said: You hear yourself differently: there's more clarity and articulation around individual notes within chords, and individual notes in single-note lines MEAN more.

That's it! You can get similar sounds from other guitars, but with a Gretsch it's more a feedback loop you have with the instrument. It's just more enjoyable to play.