Modern Gretsch Guitars

double cut w/trestle bracing?

1

Wondering if anyone knows if in the modern Gretsch era there’s been a full-size (17” lower bout, 2.75” deep body), double-cut model with trestle bracing?

2

No vintage or modern deep double-cuts. Closest you'll get is Jack White's modded Annie, but that's a 16" body.

3

So are double-cut Falcons (besides the 1.75"/16" center-blocks) usually less deep than the single-cut versions?

4

So are double-cut Falcons (besides the 1.75"/16" center-blocks) usually less deep than the single-cut versions?

– echoplex

Yes

5

Hmm. What's the deepest double-cuts got/get?

6

Mostly two inches. There has been at least one vintage double-cut 6120 with a 2.25" deep body, but that's it.

7

The 70's era 7660 Nashville was 16" wide by 2.75" deep. I believe the catalog says 2 1/2 " deep though,so....

8

So are/were there any 17" double-cuts?

9

Country Gents from 1962 on, and again in the modern era. Vikings, maybe. 60s doublecut Falcon; modern doublecut Falcon (except for center blockers). All 2" deep, more or less. What exactly are you looking for?

10

Country Gents from 1962 on, and again in the modern era. Vikings, maybe. 60s doublecut Falcon; modern doublecut Falcon (except for center blockers). All 2" deep, more or less. What exactly are you looking for?

– Proteus

Basically I want the same sound, and in particular the same kind of on-demand responsive feedback I get with my Phoenix, but in a double-cut. I think it's the body size and the trestle bracing that's key to the feedback response of the Phx, but the upper-fret access is problematic.

11

But but but...the top cutaway really doesn't have much to do with upper-fret access, does it? Do you wrap your thumb around in there?

To my knowledge, Gretsch has never trestle-braced any guitar slimmer than 2.5" - and there just aren't many (any?) doublecuts that deep.

But. The trestles stiffen up a deeper body - possibly to about the same degree the lighter bracing and/or soundpost you find in a modern 6122 stiffen its shallower body.

Case in point, the Player's Edition 6122T: it has the "ML" (Masao Terada and Mike Lewis, for the designers who collaborated on it) bracing - which is essentially half a trestle, with a leg at just one end. It's the right amount of bracing for the thinner 2.25" body, the intention being to tighten the guitar up some from it's soundpost-only wide-open vintage configuration - subject to feedback which may come at multiple frequencies simultaneously - and to link top and back for more synchronized response. Whether this produces a guitar as responsive as your Phoenix, I can't say. But it seems a reasonable approach, and 2.25" isn't much shallower than your Phoenix.

Also, importantly for your purposes, the Players Edition Gent has an 18th-fret neck join rather than the long 14th-fret heel found on most Gents, and which would limit your stratospheric excursions.

It's been my experience that to find a guitar that will feed back, at will, on any note I want - is a matter of luck on top of design. A model's specification may incorporate the intention and contribute a tendency that it will do so - but everything in the material and build has to semi-magically fall together that way to make it work. Not that a skilled builder couldn't optimize a particular example throughout the build to perform that way ... but the guys at Terada aren't focusing that intently on that one aspect of the guitar's performance, because there are a lot of other behaviors guys want out of their guitars and they're trying to hit them all. I'm not sure every Phoenix would perform like yours.

And I don't know that one of the centerblock models wouldn't do exactly what you want. A chambered spruce block no doubt dampens the guitar - but spruce is pretty lively, the chambers relieve it further, and one of those models might have the right behavior at volume.

Though probably not. There's something about the way a deeper guitar's body comes alive that's hard to replicate in a shallower guitar.

You may be the guy who needs to order a double-cut deep-body Phoenix from the Custom Shop. It could be a thing.

12

You could always pop the back off and add it, if you go in that direction I would consider either full or light trestle. Full trestle is best for controlled feedback and uncompromised neck support. Since it comes in contact with the neck block it gives the guitar some solid body characteristics. Light trestle is the next best thing because it also supports the neck from top to bottom. The ML bracing is okay but from what I’ve seen doesn’t help support the neck block and only has one set of feet.

15

But but but...the top cutaway really doesn't have much to do with upper-fret access, does it? Do you wrap your thumb around in there?

To my knowledge, Gretsch has never trestle-braced any guitar slimmer than 2.5" - and there just aren't many (any?) doublecuts that deep.

But. The trestles stiffen up a deeper body - possibly to about the same degree the lighter bracing and/or soundpost you find in a modern 6122 stiffen its shallower body.

Case in point, the Player's Edition 6122T: it has the "ML" (Masao Terada and Mike Lewis, for the designers who collaborated on it) bracing - which is essentially half a trestle, with a leg at just one end. It's the right amount of bracing for the thinner 2.25" body, the intention being to tighten the guitar up some from it's soundpost-only wide-open vintage configuration - subject to feedback which may come at multiple frequencies simultaneously - and to link top and back for more synchronized response. Whether this produces a guitar as responsive as your Phoenix, I can't say. But it seems a reasonable approach, and 2.25" isn't much shallower than your Phoenix.

Also, importantly for your purposes, the Players Edition Gent has an 18th-fret neck join rather than the long 14th-fret heel found on most Gents, and which would limit your stratospheric excursions.

It's been my experience that to find a guitar that will feed back, at will, on any note I want - is a matter of luck on top of design. A model's specification may incorporate the intention and contribute a tendency that it will do so - but everything in the material and build has to semi-magically fall together that way to make it work. Not that a skilled builder couldn't optimize a particular example throughout the build to perform that way ... but the guys at Terada aren't focusing that intently on that one aspect of the guitar's performance, because there are a lot of other behaviors guys want out of their guitars and they're trying to hit them all. I'm not sure every Phoenix would perform like yours.

And I don't know that one of the centerblock models wouldn't do exactly what you want. A chambered spruce block no doubt dampens the guitar - but spruce is pretty lively, the chambers relieve it further, and one of those models might have the right behavior at volume.

Though probably not. There's something about the way a deeper guitar's body comes alive that's hard to replicate in a shallower guitar.

You may be the guy who needs to order a double-cut deep-body Phoenix from the Custom Shop. It could be a thing.

– Proteus

Yeah, I do usually wrap my thumb around (bad form, sure, but its just the way it is!), and a lot of what I play has parts that involve melodies played in octaves on the 3rd & 5th strings, often moving fast, and reorienting my hand to 'reach around' when I get to the upper frets is kind of a hinderance (not to mention hinders accuracy!).

I'm sure you're right that an individual guitar's particularities are an important variable in how/whether it feeds back usefully/easily, etc. And I'm sure you're right that a thinner bodied, but more lightly-braced model might do the trick- the Country Gent does look promising (wish it came in a color/trim that was more to my aesthetic liking). I need to find a shop that has one and torture them with feedback experimenting.

I've got a Panther, too, and there is much that I really like about it... except getting it to feed back! Much more difficult to get it to 'sing' than the Phx, and when it does it quickly 'resolves' to one particular not-ideal tone, no matter the note. Just doesn't have the wonderful body resonance of the Phx. It is quite a bit easier to play, though, and on some material I like the bit more focused tone and slightly longer sustain.

Yes, a Custom Shop trestle-braced, double-cut deep-body Phoenix is something that occurred to me- I just have to find that winning lottery ticket I know is around somewhere first! (well, maybe not- I should get a quote..!)

16

If you change the pickups in your Panther it will feed back.

17

If you change the pickups in your Panther it will feed back.

– Curt Wilson

I've already tried a couple different TVJ's in it (for sound refinement, not specifically for feedback)- currently have a C+ bridge and Magnatron neck. But I don't think the pickups are the issue with getting the feedback I want- the Phoenix behaved the same with the various pickups I've had in it.

18

Well ya know...there’s the DigiTech FreqOut pedal. Demos I’ve heard sound completely natural.

19

I've already tried a couple different TVJ's in it (for sound refinement, not specifically for feedback)- currently have a C+ bridge and Magnatron neck. But I don't think the pickups are the issue with getting the feedback I want- the Phoenix behaved the same with the various pickups I've had in it.

– echoplex

I got mine to feedback with a PAF Filter'Tron in the bridge and a TV Super'Tron in the neck using an aluminum Tru Arc that has holes in it.

20

To my knowledge, Gretsch has never trestle-braced any guitar slimmer than 2.5"...

Apologies for the pedantry, but 2" was the cutoff for trestle bracing. The '57-'60 Gents, '60 Clubs and '61 6120 were 2.25" deep and the '61 Gents and Clubs were 2" deep.


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