And on a side note, Zuma has convinced me to stay away from the right-before-FMIC Gretsches for both build quality and out of principle.
ALERT: FAKE Gretsch, Fender & Gibsons!!!!!!
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- Rated: 10 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 5:39 a.m. kovachian:
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- Rated: 55 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 5:56 a.m. Zuma:
Actually, kovachian, the right-before-FMIC Gretsches were already showing improvement over the long-before-FMIC models. The sheer volume of complaints from people spending out-of-pocket to upgrade to what should have come stock from the factory spoke louder than Fred's tunnel vision at the time.
An aside to Joe: Please don't take my seeming negativism as just that. There's no bigger Gretsch fan than I (except, possibly, for everyone else here) and I speak passionately about the way I feel. What I've mentioned here has been an attempt to instill perspective to the subject at hand. You and FMIC are doing an applaudable, outstanding job.
As long as you don't make a G6134T-LTV with aged white lacquer, a vertical logo headstock, Syncho-Sonic bridge and old-timey clear binding layer I've got no complaints.
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- Rated: 11 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 9:03 a.m. Tom from PA:
As long as the counterfeiters are trading over the internet they should be vulnerable to exposure and prosecution.
Another avenue of defense is an educated public. If you spot a phony Gretsch being passed of as the "real deal" in a shop notify FMIC. I was trying to make this point in a previous thread about the counterfeit White Falcon in a Canadian shop.
Putting a few weasels in jail will help a little with the problem.
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- Rated: 10 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 11:05 a.m. kovachian:
So between the fake toothpaste, fake baby formula, poisoned pet food and fake Viagra, I've seen way more than enough incentive for the western world economies to slam the door in China's face. We did just fine before we welcomed them and we'd do just fine after they're booted out.
Oh but thanks for hosting the 2008 Olympics BYE!
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- Rated: 52 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 12:17 p.m. gretschman36:
kovachian: Understood but due to economic reasons, China is the capital of manufacturing much like Japan, then Korea was.
Not to get on a bigger rant, but it's the US that has always driven more goods, cheaper prices and the WalMart mentality.
I remember my economics course in college and the professor's stance on the problem with Japan at that time. The thing we learned the most was how unwilling the US consumer was to pay more to get better "quality". The thing is, it was mostly "inexpensive" items back then. Slowly the tide turned and more and more pricey goods came into the market.
Anyone remember when Hoshino Gakki (Ibanez) was the scurge of the industry? They copied US guitars so well they often were as good if not better than the real thing. Funny how China steals from them now.
Since history is our greatest teacher, it seems China will continue to emerge economically via the same methods Japan and Korea did.
Wait until the middle east becomes the next "China". It will happen. Russia is close behind China now and they too, are counterfeit experts.
Nice. I need to take some meds!!
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- Rated: 52 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 12:21 p.m. gretschman36:
To Joe Carducci - Gretsch/FMIC: Thanks for your attention! It's great to see you check in here and truly care!
Without giving away any secrets, are you guys working on a way to combat these pirates ( better than Gibson is by posting how to spot a fake or knocking off yourself with really cheap guitars?).
I think everyone would sleep better!!!!
Keep up the good work. The FMIC Gretsch line is the best it's been!
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- Rated: 52 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 12:40 p.m. gretschman36:
Ever have one of those days where the thing foremost in your thoughts appears everywhere you look - like this China thing????
Look at this great news from CNN.Com:
And even more LIKE THIS
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- Rated: 55 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 4:38 p.m. Zuma:
Tom from PA said: Putting a few weasels in jail will help a little with the problem.
Unfortunately, a little and no more. To paraphrase Old Lodge Skins' lament about White Men in Little Big Man, "There is an endless supply of weasels." -
- Rated: 52 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 6:23 p.m. gretschman36:
I agree, Zuma.
Kinda like the thumb in the dike story.
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- Rated: 11 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 6:58 p.m. Tom from PA:
I understand Zuma's point of view. But if we did away with law enforcement and prosecution because it didn't totally eliminate crime the result would be anarchy. The lady in our town who was caught counterfeiting Gucci closed her shop.
You do what you can because it is better than doing nothing. In the process you may raise customer awareness. I think guitar counterfeiting would be easier to control than phony watches, purses, clothes, etc. You can't sell them on the street so it ties the crook to a shop or the internet. Much easier to monitor than street operations out of the trunk of a car.
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- Rated: 52 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 7:19 p.m. gretschman36:
Good point, Tom. The other difficult part is selling them in the secondary marker after the fact and eBay.
And we all know eBay does squat when it comes to counterfeiters. They just reg. again, new user names, address, etc., and off they go all over again.
No matter what, it must be hard to stop fake guitars (and products in general) since there's no real answer.
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- Rated: 11 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 8:36 p.m. Tom from PA:
The company's who are having products counterfeited an eBay are going to have more leverage getting ads pulled than concerned citizens will.
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- Rated: 52 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 9:21 p.m. gretschman36:
True, Tom. Another good point. You've made many during this thread. Vote up for you!
The VeRO programs on eBay are pretty strong with MLB, NASCAR, etc. Gretsch also has a VeRo program Here
My brother sold a Ripken signed bat a few years back, and he was contacted by Ripken's people and the MLB VeRO groups. He had to prove it was real since they did not recognize it as a licensed product because he got it signed at Spring Training fron Cal himself, after practice.
Everything was fine, just weird to know they were lurking. It had been up there about 7 hours when he was notified.
Too bad the guitar guys can't do the same thing.
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- Rated: 52 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 9:30 p.m. gretschman36:
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Jul 26, 2007 10:07 p.m. beatles48124:
This is the toughest snottiest Gibson I have ever seen WTF
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- Rated: 6 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 10:12 p.m. beatles48124:
Wow ZUMA That happens to be the dinkiest wiring job I have ever seen on such an expensive guitar. That guitar must have sounded like an entirely new guitar when that rewire was done. That kind of reminds me of the garbage hardware (pots especially) that Epiphone puts on their Casino guitars. Absolute garbage
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- Rated: 55 ↑
Jul 26, 2007 11:53 p.m. Zuma:
It did. It was the proverbial Takes-Off-Her-Glasses, Lets-Down-Her-Hair, "Why Miss Jones, You're Beautiful!" difference.
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- Rated: 20 ↑
Jul 29, 2007 9:48 a.m. DynaSaur:
I am really convinced that there are a lot more fake guitars out on the market than we are made aware of. I was in Shanghai, CHINA a few weeks back and saw some fake guitars that looked extremely close, and in some cases better than the real thing. I personally wouldn’t buy a fake guitar and I am very fortunate enough to be able to afford the real thing. However, I do feel a little annoyed that some Chinese made ‘Stratocaster’ is better built than my MIM Strat that I paid considerably more for.
Some of the Korean made Gibson LP knock-offs looked just like the real thing! When the sales man pointed out that they were fakes, I had to take a second look. Sadly, if someone really wanted a Gibson LP-like guitar, it would make financially more sense to buy one of those near-perfect copies for a few hundred dollars than spend a few thousand dollars for almost the same thing. I am not advocating purchasing fakes, but this is the economic and materialistic reality of the modern world in which the majority of the world live in.
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