Gretsch Events

2021 California Roundup? Attendee Opinions Please!

1

It is that time of the year again for me to be planning the California Gold Rush Roundup scheduled for September 10-12, 2021. A part of that planning is for me to sign a contract and to put down a meaningful deposit. Before doing so, however, I wanted to check in and see just how many think that they might attend.

For many of us old geezers, we will have gotten our vaccinations by then so the risk may not be as elevated. On the other hand, public health officials may still be recommending against gatherings of more than ten notwithstanding the fact that vaccinations have been received. Also, some may not be planning to be vaccinated.

Some questions for our regular Roundup'ers:

  1. Do you want a Roundup this year or is it simply too early? Would you prefer to await 2022?

  2. Will you be fully vaccinated by the last week of August? If you want to attend but do not intend to get vaccinated, please tell me that.

  3. While it would not be my natural preference to do so, we could limit the event to only those who have been vaccinated if that will encourage fence sitters to attend. Would that make you more inclined to attend or less inclined? (Again, not my first choice.)

  4. Are there any particular protocols that you think should be put in place that will make you feel more comfortable about attending? It may be possible to set up gear outside to play, but I don't know if that lower amphitheater where we take group photographs has power. (I somehow think that afm380-Joe may have had power there in 2019.) It would also mean that we would be having to set up and tear down each day, which would be a drag (e.g., think Parabar).

We are starting to emerge from this bad year we have all been through and I think that, for me at least, a Roundup is something that would make me feel like a sense of normalcy has begun to return to my life. But, I also do not want to contribute to someone getting the virus (even those not in attendance but back at your homes) just because we couldn't be patient.

Please share your candid thoughts here. If you would prefer, you can always send me an email as well. My address is (myscreenname)(at)yahoo(dot)com.

Thanks so much!

2

Patty and I would be up for it...

3

Patty and I would be up for it...

– Hipbone

Thanks, Greg. Can you do me the favor of answering all of the questions as that may give me a broader sense about things. You can do it by email if that is preferred.

4

Based on recent news of May and July 4 being goals, I would think an event in September of vaccinated persons shouldn't be a concern. There is power down below, but probably limited to 15A depending on how the Breaker Box is set up. A second extension cord probably can be run to the nearest second 15A source, too. My thought from 2019 was to make something simple down below with Party Tents, but not a full stage. Weather still would be a minor risk.

Depending on the weekend, I have my 40th Anniversary in possible overlap.

5

Based on recent news of May and July 4 being goals, I would think an event in September of vaccinated persons shouldn't be a concern. There is power down below, but probably limited to 15A depending on how the Breaker Box is set up. A second extension cord probably can be run to the nearest second 15A source, too. My thought from 2019 was to make something simple down below with Party Tents, but not a full stage. Weather still would be a minor risk.

Depending on the weekend, I have my 40th Anniversary in possible overlap.

– Twangmeisternyc

By way of clarification, are you suggesting that the event be limited to those who have been vaccinated?

Are you suggesting that the event be held outdoors in the lower amphitheater rather than in the dining room as in past years?

In short, this is more than just trying to get a headcount. This is an attempt by me to see if people have ideas that can make the event safer and whether we even want to risk having a Roundup this year.

6

No reason not to use the Main Hall, it just could be a big effort to make a full second stage down below.

And yes, vaccinated-only. We'll learn more about herd as the % vaccinated increases, no better info at this time.

7

Carol and I are definitely interested! However there are at least two other events competing for our time on that particular weekend, so what we end up doing is still to be decided. We started our vaccines this past week so we'll definitely be good on that front by September.

8

If masks and social distancing are required, I'm out. Do what you need to do to regarding safety, but the idea of spending a weekend in a face diaper and foggy glasses is incredibly unappealing to me.

So if they are required (and I understand why you might feel that's necessary), I'll be back in 2022.

9

If masks and social distancing are required, I'm out. Do what you need to do to regarding safety, but the idea of spending a weekend in a face diaper and foggy glasses is incredibly unappealing to me.

So if they are required (and I understand why you might feel that's necessary), I'll be back in 2022.

– Mel Waldorf

I wanted to attend but like Mel, I’m out if there will be strict requirements.

life in my world has returned to a normalcy and I know I wouldn’t enjoy being put in that situation.

I feel the only threat to a person’s health would come from communal microphones. I attend an open mic near my home and bring my own microphone.

10

Mel and Greg, thank you for your candor. So, if attendance were limited to those who would be vaccinated by late August, and public health precautionary measures were therefore relaxed, would you each plan to attend?

11

I would love to attend, but please remember.. the current emergency approved mRNA vaccine is for the recipient's protection not those around the vaccinated person, this mRNA vaccine does not keep the individual from being a spreader. * I do not wish to contest this and start an opinions slapping contest.. just stating the current understanding of the vaccine for the reason of the fact that many of us do not see a need to have this vaccine, being healthy individuals below the age of 65.* I will be wearing an n95 mask unless the rules of the game change again by next summer. Hell I might wear a mask for the rest of my life since it keeps my face from ever showing signs of aging, this is a blessing to a musician. sunglasses only hide so much.

12

“Limiting attendance” to the vaccinated is not something I would support. I won’t be getting a vaccine and I won’t be lying about it to attend. I appreciate the conversation, on the topic.

Is this the direction you would like life to proceed.... Limiting events to the vaccinated? I think it would be best to hold off on an event rather than put such stipulations forward.

13

please remember.. the current emergency approved mRNA vaccine is for the recipient's protection not those around the vaccinated person, this mRNA vaccine does not keep the individual from being a spreader. -- ThenNocturnebBrain

There is much we don't know about the virus yet and you are correct that the vaccine is not being advised for the purpose of protecting others. But, I have heard public health physicians state that there is some evidence that suggests that the vaccine may prevent the transmission. Repeat: Not stating it as a fact but there appears to be some evidence that suggests that it might be so.

Is this the direction you would like life to proceed.... Limiting events to the vaccinated? -- Hipbone

You already saw from my first post that I have concerns on multiple fronts about staging this event. On the other hand, I have to exercise good judgment here and err on the side of caution and protecting people. What you and I decide to do when it is just you and me is different in my mind than what I need to do when I am planning an event where people (even those in our homes) could be placed at risk.

Unless things were to open up dramatically, I don't foresee having no precautions if there are those attending who are not vaccinated.

I will confess that this is a challenge trying to predict where we are going to be six months from now.

14

However fate works, we just got an email, and we just were scheduled for jabs this Friday Noon.

I figured no chance before June.

Must be GDP Karma.

15

And thank you guys for sharing your thoughts here. There are no right or wrong answers, but questions abound. Continue please, you and others yet, to share your thoughts and ideas.

16

I’m vaxed, I can bring the drums.

...and an amp for the ‘ol pick drop.

17

I sent yer an email, Cap'n Bob, and may I say it's great to see you round the ranch.

18

Hi Bob, I will be vaccinated and I am interested in going to a Round Up, I guess I’m ok being around others who are not vaccinated. If I ever want to do another gig I guess I would have to be. I don’t know what the situation might be in September with variants though. And if my vaccination protects me from them? Since my daughter has severe asthma we have been super careful in my family. It seems weird to consider being around people even!

19

I would attend

I will be fully vaccinated

Difficult to maintain social distancing, etc. at such an event but not impossible as I don't think attendance will as high as usual. I would hate to have to limit attendees to just those that are vaccinated. I think we could do it and try our best to maintain distance, mask when feasible to do so, etc. Knowing most (maybe 90%) of the attendees will be vaccinated makes it more tangible, I think.

20

i thought the folks at the fall Underground Roundup did pretty well with social distancing. i had my mask on at least half the time, but took it off when talking to folks in a 6-footish circle outdoors because it's very difficult to make yourself understood from 6 feet away with a mask on. and since the playing area was large, the actual musical environment was safe enough to go maskless which helped with singing. i'm not going to make a recommendation either way, though, because i'm not up to the responsibility. would i go (not that there's a smidgen of a chance)? probably. but i'm getting the second shot on Thursday, so though i won't let my guard down i'll worry a lot less.

21

I expect to be vaccinated in the next month or so, but unfortunately I think it's too soon to tell whether September will be safe for gatherings. If more variants of the virus appear between now and then that turn out to be vaccine-resistant, masks and social distancing may still be prudent, even if not required, and that would make the event feel very strange and not celebratory. The thought of lugging keyboards down to the lower outdoor stage every day and back indoors again every night would be a deal-breaker for me.

As much as I would love to attend a RoundUp, and as much as I feel starved for both musical expression and human contact, I am not willing to commit to a RoundUp this far in advance with all that is still unknown. It's very possible that all will be well, and that conditions would allow the RoundUp to be much as we have known it, and that it coud be a total gas. But it's also possible that enough people wouldn't feel enthused about attending, so a small turnout might feel les than optimal. I also would feel bad about you ponying up deposit money, only to have the event cancelled at the last minute, or the event still go on but with restrictions that weren't part of anyone's expectations.

As you and I have talked about, I have no idea whether I'll still be around next year for a RoundUp, but it feels lke a better bet than trying to pull it off this year with so much still up in the air.

22

I was wondering when the NorCal Roundup info was coming.

I really want to attend this year and was looking forward to another road trip up North, but if vaccines are Required or mandatory, count me out. Im not an anti-vaxxer, and Im fully aware of all the Covid Informatin and Covid Misinformation out there,but Requiring a vaccine or proof of one is a major turn off for me.

As long as Im not French Kissing anyone there ,I think a mask used per CDC guidlines (6 foot range)and hand sanitizer is enough.

23

Some of us have had a lot more interaction with others this past year, using all the safety precautions.

Others are starting to take baby steps having had added underlying concerns or just choosing to stay out of the way...

We'll figure it out. Lots more data forthcoming.

No one wants to learn after they attended that they have to isolate to protect others, or worse.

Beyond the social distancing, masks, hand sanitizer while having fun there are common sleeping quarters, common wash rooms, and communal eating. That's what unresolved. That's where things breakdown without herd.

24

I don't see myself going to California this year (though anything is possible), but as I have the same considerations in mind per the Nashville Roundup, this thread is useful, and I've processed some thoughts.

So far as we seem to know, vaccines are extremely effective for personal defense - ie, to protect the vaccinated. It's not yet clear to what extent they prevent transmission: that is, how well they neutralize the risk a vaccinated (but infected) person poses to others. Evidence is emerging that they're better at this than might have been expected, but that hasn't been quantified. A couple months from now, we'll know much more about this. If/when it turns out that vaccines are very good at preventing transmission, mandating vaccines for social activities will be a more compelling argument.

Here we're trying to plan months ahead, and I doubt any of us are equipped to outguess the qualified medical and epidemiological experts who have been embedded in the research and tracking from the beginning. They can't tell us definitively what conditions will be in late August, so reasonable people should acknowledge that things might change - as it looks now, probably for the better, but maybe for the worse.

But given the consensus in what is known now, I don't think requiring proof of vaccine should be part of the plan. The demographic of the GDP trends toward the geriatric (by comparison to the larger population), and at least presumably we relative elders have naturally tended toward sensible (and common-sensical) caution. (When the mere fact of your age makes you many times more vulnerable to bullets, it does focus the attention on consistently ducking. I understand that younger people, still immortal, might have different instincts.)

From the responses, it seems most have planned to - or already have - gotten themselves all shot up. (I had my second last Friday.) In the natural course of events, more of us will be vaccinated in August than now are. To give this community every benefit of the doubt - that we generally respect each other and care about each other's well-being - I don't think any of us, vaccinated or not, would invade each other's personal space in order to weaponize our aerosols.

By this I mean, in short, that if we take appropriate precautions, the unvaccinated risk themselves more than others. [But see digressive footnote]

That is, assuming reasonable masking, distancing, and sanitation protocols are in place. These need not be draconian, nor confrontational; they shouldn't be cynically nod-and-a-wink, wear-it-for-a-necklace either.

Given the universal consensus in the scientific and medical communities about the effectiveness of both masking and distancing, those would be more important to me than requiring vaccination.

As to the nature of distancing, all the info I've digested suggests there's minimal-to-zero chance of transmission, outside, among people who - while not wearing 18-foot diameter hoops to create 6-foot exclusion zones - nonetheless share a view of reality which acknowledges air-borne contagious disease. And even if we were going to use yardsticks to keep us from dancing too close, I think there's now good evidence that 3 feet is a sufficient buffer zone, particularly outside. If we don't pack in like a sports stadium or mosh pit, we're probably safe outside - and more so by Roundup season.

Distancing - and especially masking - become more critical as we move to poorly ventilated indoor spaces. Hipbone makes a good point about not sharing mics. Close harmony singing is not generally a feature of Roundups, but we should probably be extra-vigilant about our spray zones when singing.

It's my sense that a group of people who ostensibly care about each others' welfare should be able to gather, with a modicum of mutual respect, and keep each other healthy. To my knowledge, no ill effects followed the east coast Undergroundup - Curt and other easterlies surely have more background on that, and will be glad to share their protocols.

Even without establishing strict protocols, it should be possible to work out guidelines based on what we know now, and what we can reasonably project the situation will be months hence, barring further developments. (On the understanding that plans may change to be more or less restrictive, based on conditions and sound medical advice in, say, July.) A lot can change in 5 months. Things might be worse; I think it likely they'll be better.

Assuming you can work out an agreement with the venue, Bob, where you won't be stuck with a punitive cancellation fee if our handbaskets veer closer to hell again, I think it's reasonable to try to round up in 2021.


Digressive Footnote: I think non-vaxxers are also complicating their ongoing social lives and interpersonal relationships - setting themselves up to feel defensive, nurse a sense they're unfairly ostracized, and get militant and combative in response.

My wife, for instance, had decided not to get the vaccine - because she has unpredictable sensitivity and reactions to medications, anaphylaxis is a possible side-effect of the vaccine, and she's deathly allergic to benadryl, the default treatment for allergic reactions. She's thus in a position where a routine, first-choice medical intervention could be catastrophic.

Now I'm all shot up - as are our parents and more of our siblings, as well as our children and their sig others (who are the gatekeepers to the grandkids). She's starting to wonder what her decision means for extended family gatherings, as in Easter, Memorial Day, July 4th. Her choices in an increasingly (but not completely) vaccinated/herd-immune world are to go and be vulnerable herself - as both our families include proud, defiant non-masking denialists - as well as possibly transmissive; to stay home and be left out; or to stay home and keep me from going. (Not that I much want to go anywhere, at any time, for any reason anyway.)

So, will she attend? How will she explain whatever decision she makes? And how do friends and relatives treat her in their thinking and planning? Do they invite her, worrying that she might get infected during the visit? Do they tell her, for her own welfare, that she shouldn't come? Do they try to double down on their masking/distancing/sanitization protocols - thus annoying, alienating, and possibly driving the denialists in the family to self-exclude - in order to protect her?

So far I've defended her decision not to get the vaccine. Our children and other relatives encourage her to get it. As we work through all the considerations, the complicated social and familial dynamics emerge more clearly. She's now wondering if she should get the one-shot after all, maybe in consultation with the family doctor, in their office, with extended observation afterward (knowing it's a block from the hospital in case it goes bad).

None of this stuff would matter if we didn't care about each other. But we do, so it seems to me it does.

Is this the direction you would like life to proceed?

I think the bottom line is that I would like life to proceed.

25

there are common sleeping quarters, common wash rooms, and communal eating.

Ugh. I hadn't thought about those pieces of the puzzle. That could change my thinking. I'll have to process. It wasn't an issue for the one-day Undergroundup...


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