General tech questions

My ‘mud switch’ is working properly

1

Hello Everyone, I've realized that my 2005 Annie 'mud switch' is actually working properly. It adds treble and chime when in the down position, and kind of darkness (definitely not bass) on the up position. This makes it quite useful to get a bit of presence in solos, etc.

For what I read, the mud switch is not usually that useful, so I wanted to make sure: Is there any circuit change in that year models?

Thanks for your answers / feedback!

2

Both Up or Down should darken the Tone, one more so than the other. Center position is Wide Open, just straight from the Pickups to the Volume controls.

Your comment of Treble and Chime is odd...Is the switch wired differently?

3

While I wouldn't describe mine behaving quite in the same way as Danny's, I will second the mud switch love. I have a hard time putting down my 6120 (who doesn't, am I right?), so it's been exceptionally useful for covering a large swath of sonic ground without having to reach for something else. It's been really fun and engaging for songwriting too. However, this might be something that's rig-specific; I use pretty common amps and pedals with only a few minor mods.

4

Any chance your mud switch and pickup switch have been switched? Test it with the volume knobs.

5

Any chance your mud switch and pickup switch have been switched? Test it with the volume knobs.

– Daddy Dog

I think we have a Bingo.

6

I know it is quite strange. The pickup switch is ok. It works properly with the volume controls, but the tone switch adds, bright and chime to any pickup combination in down position. I'll make a video to show it this weekend. I bought the guitar new at streetsounds NYC and is a 6118T model (with bigsby), but the 'T' is written with a pen by hand. It was a B-stock model, so it came without case candy or tags, but it was unplayed, with all the plastics and without a scratch. So I guess no change to the electronics has been made.

7

If you understand how to use the switch, nothing else needs to be said.

If you ever take the switch and harness out, you'll know for sure.

I've not given the 3-position Mud Switch in my 6120 an up close look, but I think there is no reason it can't be wired as yours appears to be.

You may be on to something, ... seems more logical to progress from Wide Open, to darker, to darkest versus Up Dark, Down less dark...

More like a knob control, or like the PickUp selector switch.

8

If I had a mud switch I would want it to work like yours does with added treble in the down position.

9

If I had a mud switch I would want it to work like yours does with added treble in the down position.

– BuddyHollywood

Unfortunately a passive tone circuit can't add frequencies, it can only take them away.

10

Unfortunately a passive tone circuit can't add frequencies, it can only take them away.

– Charlie Vegas

Of coarse. This is why pickups going directly to the output jack (the middle position), bypassing any darkening caps, has as much treble as the pickups can put out. If a switch doesn't do this, it is wired differently than any Gretsch I've ever heard of.

11

Here's the video. It's at home volume, but I hope it can be heard:

Don't you feel the mud switch adds clarity and chime?

12

A Horton Heat model has the Mud Switch and PickUp selector reversed. I have the Horton Heat model.

If you are sure that your PickUp volume controls are affecting the correct 3-way switch, then I'll stay with my comment that your Mud Switch is wired such that Down is Wide Open, the Middle is the first step Dark drop off, and Up is Full Dark.

In that one deciding position, as you played, you shortened the few bars more so than the other passes. I listened twice, I think you can figure it out.

No doubt your 3-way closest to the neck in the Down position is very bright. Which is, on an Annie, your Bridge PickUp, much brighter.

I believe that is your PickUp selector.

And it seems your Mud Switch on the Upper Bout, is brighter in both positions, Up or Down!

Goodness....A third Cap in the normally Wide Open position?

13

The design of the switch used for the mud switch doesn't make this possible. The switch is center-off, meaning in the middle position there will be no capacitors in contact with the signal.

14

Then high resistance in the center position?

Hmmm....

I have an Amp that was a "B" class purchase, when I checked through the tubes, several had been changed. New-in-Box, a return, etc.

Until you get inside, no telling at this point....

15

The only resistance should come from the volume pots. In the center mud-switch position, and with all the knobs all the way up, there should be nothing between the pickups and the output jack.

16

i like it. id like to wire my mud so that down was like the 'strangle' switch on a jag and up was treble cut

17

This guitar sounds like the one you call 'mud switch' is actually the pickup selector.

18

I don't think the mud switch is supposed to work, Isn't that the whole point of it?

19

This guitar sounds like the one you call 'mud switch' is actually the pickup selector.

– Doppler

This, I believe is the answer.

20

This guitar sounds like the one you call 'mud switch' is actually the pickup selector.

– Doppler

Nop. The volume controls work with the pickup switch correctly. It's checked. Maybe I could unscrew the tone switch and check through the f-hole? I don't want to unmount the neck pickup.

21

Switch down your "mud" switch and then put the volume knob nearest to your output jack to zero, if the sound goes off, your "mud" switch is actually your pickup selector.

Chances are, someone had switch (no pun) your toggle switches to Setzer/RHH style. I prefer it, its more natural.

22

Switch down your "mud" switch and then put the volume knob nearest to your output jack to zero, if the sound goes off, your "mud" switch is actually your pickup selector.

Chances are, someone had switch (no pun) your toggle switches to Setzer/RHH style. I prefer it, its more natural.

– jetbunny

Thank you jetbunny, but that's not the case. The knobs work with the pick up switch as expected which is located right. The chimey sound comes from the tone switch. I know that it shouldn't (I know how the guitar circuits are supposed to work) but it actually does, as you can see in the video. I'll try to unscrew it and check it through the f-hole in the coming days.

23

That's weird! I just listened to your video and no Gretsch I ever played had a mud switch which sounded like that. That's an anti-mud switch.

It's not so difficult to check - tape some string to each switch, undo the nuts and observe through an F-hole. They might even fit through the F-Hole so you can take pics - you know, if you wanted to show us. Then just pull them back through the holes with the string and retighten.

I would love to know what is going on with your guitar.

24

If you're happy with the way it works, great. That's all that really counts, right? Still, it'd be interesting to find out what's going on with that. Did you buy your guitar new or used?

25

Hey! I'm sorry I hadn't seen your answers. Yes, it is in fact an antimud switch. I use it for solos and licks, and I'm very happy with it so far. I have to take it off and check which caps are in there (from the f hole I can see they're crappy little ones).

I bought my guitar as a B-Stock, but it was new with plastics and new strings. It is one of those 2005 Fujigen annies so it is kind of special. From the Gretsch web I see that it is not a common one since the serial number is 0006 (says that between 0 and 10 are reserved for prototypes or non commercial models), so maybe this has something to do...

I think I could unscrew the switch, but I don't know how to screw it again without removing the neck pup. I'm not experienced in this kind of jobs in hollow bodies so I'm not very confident.


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