Gretsch Garage Sale

FOR SALE 2003 COUNTRY CLASSIC 6122

51

I sold this guitar.I ended up paying shipping as buyer told me deal was off if I didn't cover shipping.I tried to make this right and payed shipping.He needed exact weights.I brought to work (needed scale).Had to be under 8lbs.Made suggestions. Even sent vintage knobs that were lighter weight were included in the deal.I don't like being bad mouthed.I am sorry this has become unpleasant. I am not a jerk.

52

I posted this here because ebay is getting crazy.Hoped to avoid all this.Hope you can bond with the guitar.It's quite nice.

53

I sold this guitar.I ended up paying shipping as buyer told me deal was off if I didn't cover shipping.I tried to make this right and payed shipping.He needed exact weights.I brought to work (needed scale).Had to be under 8lbs.Made suggestions. Even sent vintage knobs that were lighter weight were included in the deal.I don't like being bad mouthed.I am sorry this has become unpleasant. I am not a jerk.

– eric billingsley

Let's be clear about this. Your original ad said "Really clean guitar......Original excellent condition gretsch case included.$1200.00"

I sent you $1200 via paypal. You complained that you did receive enough after paypal fees and made it sound like you wanted $1250 plus paypal fees.

Here's what you wrote to me: "David I only recieved $1164.90.I need another $85.10 as the guitar is $1200+$50 for shipping.Total of $1250.00.Guitar is already a great deal and I need to get the listed amount.Paypal fees you'll have to cover."

So yes, you wanted $1250 plus paypal fees.

After you complained, I found in a later post (amongst photos) you added that you wanted $1200 plus $50 shipping. I only said the deal was off if you wanted $1250 plus paypal fees. We then agreed that I would send you additional money so that you actually received $1200 and I followed through. I sent something like $1236 total.

I also asked you specific questions about the condition of the guitar such as dings, dents, scratches etc... You never disclosed that the guitar was covered with surface scratches and that there was discoloration on the back from the edge of the pad (even through you took the pad off and weighed it so you had to see it).

You responded that the guitar was in "near mint condition." I specifically asked about the condition of the back under the pad. You never disclosed the finish issues from the pad.

The guitar is not really clean. You didn't disclose the true condition of the guitar even after I asked specific questions as any buyer should do. People will disagree about how to categorize this guitar, but you should have disclosed more info when I specifically asked in any case.

I never asked for any refund or or to return it. I decided to let you know I was pissed about the condition and asked if there was something wrong with the bridge pickup which sounds weak. You didn't respond until I posted here.

It's a rare occasion that I'm unhappy with the condition of a guitar when I get it and I have purchased many hundreds.

I asked the right questions. I got a lie in return. "The guitar is in near mint condition."

So yes, BUYERS beware.

54

McGuires swirl and haze remover didn't help get rid of this ring on the back.

Again, I specifically asked about the condition of the back under the pad. This was not disclosed. Eric told me the guitar was in "near mint condition."

55

Wish I had the scratch to take it off your hands and make everyone happy. I can't imagine the bridge pup needs replacing. HS Filters don't just die.

But this is a personal dispute and should be settled between the two of you.

56

Well, I made the mistake of going back to my Emails with Eric when I asked specific questions about the condition. He represented that it was in "near mint condition."

Anyone care to adjust their response or do you think this guitar is in near mint condition?

"The guitar is in near mint condition.It apparently wasnt played much.Frets are in great shape as is finish.No big scratches.Even case looks new.Gold is still mostly there.Bigsby handle has some gold worn away but is very clean.The guitar is very presentable.Good looking guitar with very dark walnut finish.I will weigh guitar tomorrow and send you results.Goodnight."

And take a look at the questions I asked (I haven't mentioned the worn gold plating on the bridge pickup because I really don't care about that):

Thank you. It's hard for me to tell a lot from the photos, so best to ask some questions:

Is there fret wear? If so, please describe in detail and maybe some photos.

It's very hard to see if the gold is worn off like on the trem bar or bridge post where you might lay your hand, or tuners etc.. Can you describe the condition of the gold plating?

Any dings, dents scratches or other blemishes? The guitar looks pretty new in the photos.

Condition of the guitar under the pad?

Thanks!

57

That looks really clean. Yes, it looks to be in excellent condition from the pictures you posted. I'd be very happy to receive a 14 year old guitar in that shape. Congratulations!

– Bluecap

I'm sorry, he said the guitar was in near mint condition. I even specifically asked about the condition under the rear pad (see photos below showing permanent markings). Do you consider this guitar to be in near mint condition?

58

Take a look at the condition of the back with the pad off. I did ask specifically about that. He told him via email that the guitar is in near mint condition. I agree with a very good, but the condition of the back should have been disclosed especially after I specifically asked.

59

What is the point of asking a question? You asked what my opinion was, I already knew what you thought. You're obviously looking for folks to side with you; looks to me like you're coming up empty handed. You want new? Buy new! This guitar is in excellent condition. Enjoy it in good health, it's yours now!

– Bluecap

I want to clarify that he claimed the guitar was in near mint condition. I specifically asked about the condition of the back under the pad as well. See photos of that permanent issue below.

"The guitar is in near mint condition.It apparently wasnt played much.Frets are in great shape as is finish.No big scratches.Even case looks new.Gold is still mostly there.Bigsby handle has some gold worn away but is very clean.The guitar is very presentable.Good looking guitar with very dark walnut finish.I will weigh guitar tomorrow and send you results.Goodnight."

60

Dave, unless the guitar looks much worse in person than it does in these pictures, that seems excellent condition to me too. And photographic light usually reveals more imperfections than you can see in natural light. (Though, conversely, I've had a hard time making flaws show up when I was trying to take warts-and-all auction pics, so it can work both ways.)

But with just these images to go on, I have to say my most babied guitars show that kind of surface hazing when I get them on the bench under the merciless work light. (And that's not even quite hazing...doesn't appear to scratching...maybe Curt will know what to call it.)

I like to keep guitars looking new, but I also like to play them - and over a few years they all collect evidence of having been touched. I keep a bottle of Meguiar's Scratch-X 2.0 (from the auto-parts emporium down the street) at my guitar bench, and routinely buff surfaces like that back to pure smooth new condition with nothing more than a soft rag. It's very forgiving stuff; you couldn't possibly rub through a finish. It's not quite magic - but it's almost like it just erases those fine surface scuffs. (Rub long enough, and it will take out honest-tew-Gawd real scratches, too. But I just don't see any in those pics. Maybe what you're seeing isn't showing up here.)

That guitar seemed a ridiculously good deal to me - just what I paid for mine 12 years ago - and if I coulda, I woulda. I'd still be happy to trade my way into that one.

– Proteus

See photos of the back with the pad off below. Consider that the condition of the back was one of the things I specifically asked about. Now consider that when I asked for details about the condition, he told me it was in near mint condition.

"The guitar is in near mint condition.It apparently wasnt played much.Frets are in great shape as is finish.No big scratches.Even case looks new.Gold is still mostly there.Bigsby handle has some gold worn away but is very clean.The guitar is very presentable.Good looking guitar with very dark walnut finish.I will weigh guitar tomorrow and send you results.Goodnight."

61

FWIW, the surface looks a little like the wrong kind of rag was used to polish it. Those marks remind me of so many car finishes over the years where the tiny bits of grit in a "polishing rag" caused swirl marks in the finish that look a little like so many threads of a spider's web.

A little judiciously-applied elbow grease, some Meguiars or similar gentle polish and I think it will come back wonderfully. Those little scratches don't look all that deep.

– Kevin Frye

So far no dice.

Any thoughts on what to do about the back of this "near mint condition" guitar?

62

I'm not going to argue interpretations, just tell you mine. A guitar that's new is to me, in "perfect" condition. Once owned and played, the best that can be expected for me, and I would think most folks, is "excellent". That doesn't mean it doesn't have marks in the finish, or that the gold is starting to lose its luster, but is simply free of worn finish, dents, dings, chips, worn frets or any electrical issues.

Obviously you aren't pleased by the term used to describe the guitar's condition when offered for sale and I feel for you, but I would never, ever expect a used guitar, and especially one that's 14 years old, to still be in brand new condition unless it was advertised as having been brought home from the store where had been purchased and never played or the case even being opened since. That would be a description of a not-brand-new guitar being as close to 'perfect' as is possible.

And again in my case, I wouldn't expect a guitar offered at the price it was to be "perfect"...that's an unrealistic expectation, I'm afraid.

– Windsordave

I reviewed my emails with Eric and realized that he described it as in near mint condition. Take a look at the photo of the back below. That appears to be permanent so far.

I didn't expect it to be perfect. But this is not near mint by any stretch in my world.

Does describing it as near mint change your thoughts as to whether this guitar was described accurately?

"The guitar is in near mint condition.It apparently wasnt played much."

63

Sorry for beating a dead horse, but I got more upset when Eric said "sellers beware" and I went back to see if I was off base and found that I specifically asked about the condition of the back and that he actually said it was near mint.

65

I use to love buying and selling gretsch guitars.I found a friend in John Brinkman one of the "Three Amigos" that started the Dallas vintage guitar show.He gave me the twenty dollars I was short to buy my dream 1960' 6120.I am really considering stopping what I love.I love my Gretsch guitars but this sort of thing just kills me.

66

Agreed. This is becoming very tiresome. I am fast coming around to the idea that nothing will please the buyer here.. Call it what you will, but no one will get my 6122 for $1200, and believe me when I say that it is proud of it's 47 yrs of life and wears its small dings with pride.

This was a Good Deal, and if a few swirl marks and the mark just about every back-pad equipped Gretsch gets after a few years are a serious problem, then maybe a used Gretsch just isn't the right guitar for the buyer. By the way, we have offered several suggestions on how best to go about removing those swirl marks and the ring on the back for very little money, all to no apparent effect.

And I see that there is yet another thread started regarding the "ring" on the back. Same issue- same solution as we offered in this thread.

Several of us have offered various versions of our own personal experiences, advice and suggestions, all of which are perfectly valid, yet for some reason, you are still here picking fights with the seller over what is in the final analysis your interpretation of one word in his original ad. One word.

Sticking up for your rights as a consumer is admirable, but in any reasonable discussion there is a time to simply agree to disagree and walk away. Instead, we've had over 70 posts across two threads on what to most here is really a minor, almost trivial issue.

Sadly, we passed that point at least 40 posts ago.

Out.

67

This guy is getting scary and is pursuing me aggressively.

71

Seriously? You sell this guitar as near mint, I get pissed, you blame me and somehow I’m pursuing you aggressively? I asked you to take responsibility for the words you used. One short Email. You ignore the issue. Whatever happened to honesty and integrity? You lack both.

Buyers beware.

72

What are we becoming?

– eric billingsley

Well now I know what you are.

73

Can't you guys either take this offline or just discontinue this thread? There is nothing more to add in terms of our suggestions to you, DavidE. Arguing with each other in front of all of us doesn't feel particularly comfortable to the rest of us who have to see it occurring.

Thanks.

74

Can't you guys either take this offline or just discontinue this thread? There is nothing more to add in terms of our suggestions to you, DavidE. Arguing with each other in front of all of us doesn't feel particularly comfortable to the rest of us who have to see it occurring.

Thanks.

– Ric12string

Don't worry, I'm done. I just think you should all know what kind of seller Eric is.

If I decide to do anything further, it will be through Paypal.


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