Really amazing stories, photos, contributions, guitar x-rays. Thanks. If my wife sees the x-ray thing she'll think all of us are nuts. No, wait- she already does.
Dr. Zoom X-Rays Please
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- Rated: 22 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 5:46 a.m. gretschiam:
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- Rated: 49 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 6:13 a.m. Ratrod:
Great pics BZ.
Did you ever measure the output of the vintage Dyna/DeArmond pickups?
There was a long discussion over that a short wile ago. New Dyna's vs. vintage ones vs. Duncan Dyna's.
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- Rated: 96 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 10:33 a.m. Setzer:
Thanks for posting that X ray Billy. I had asked Mike Lewis a couple of years ago if he wanted to borrow my '57 Jet and X it. Here is a photo of mine and it illustrates what Billy is talking about the 1/4" gap between the top and raised sections. If I am not mistaken my '57 6128 does not have the section between the pickups.
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- Rated: 204 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 11:03 a.m. Proteus:
Yep, it's fantastic to have the x-ray of the vintage piece to compare construction to the new ones. Thanks for posting that, Billy.
We wonder why modern-era Gretsch (1990-present) has done things the way they have. We think maybe there have been attempts to subtly modernize the guitars while preserving the basics, to suit them to the prevailing heavier crunch of mainstream rock...thus possibly the decisions by Fred and his advisers to build the hollowbodies heavier, and put more mass inside the Jets.
Has Jet internal construction stayed consistent from the 90s through the FMIC era, or were Jets changed during the FMIC spec-refining orgy in '03 & '04?
We know Gretsch tries to please multiple constituencies, from vintage revivalists to young rockers; sometimes they've tried to do that via compromise, and at other times by building distinctly different models.
But we also hear that when it comes to "duplicating" vintage-era designs, they have to make judgment calls - because there just wasn't enough consistency in those years from instrument to instrument (not to mention batch-to-batch or year-to-year) to nail down one "correct" spec. From that perspective, I wonder what the modern Jets were based on: if vintage models were x-rayed when the new line was being developed, or the chambering results from educated guessage based on less thorough analysis of originals – and how many old Jets were in the sample set.
Do you think all vintage-era Jets were as hollow as yours, Billy?
I'm anxious to hear the guitar, and try it myself for comparison to the current Jets. I think I can imagine its deeper resonance and more lively response, and it sure appeals to me.
As Shuie mentions, I hope that construction (and the additional 1/8th inch of body depth) makes its way down-line in the future.
In general, it seems that FMIC has gradually refined the line toward better consistency with the best of vintage-era construction - not always as quickly or thoroughly as some would like, but here's another example of things getting better. I'm glad the hollow Jet had a consistent (and apparently PERsistent) advocate!
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- Rated: 36 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 11:13 a.m. bobbyrivera:
Hmmm- I would think that when you x-ray a silver jet it would turn into a green sparkle jet and get super powers.
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- Rated: 2 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 11:33 a.m. jetboy:
A record company promise.
Beers with OZZY.
A dis' on John Sebastian.
2 sweet n so rock n' roll!
Thanks for the stories and extra pics Billy!
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- Rated: 46 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 8:44 p.m. BillyZoom:
All of my Jets were routed the same: Silver Jets 15697, 17901, 19148...Duo Jet 16360, and 6121 #23460. I suspect they were all made that way. I don't know where the modern routing came from. I was told at one point that if they made the guitar that hollow, it would be too fragile. I had to point out that we were copying a guitar that was over 50 years old, and still here after many many years on the road. BZ
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- Rated: 29 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 9:06 p.m. jetbunny:
Billy,
Thanks a lot about the pics. Very insightful. Cool pics and great story you have with Oz.
Now I'm having a hard time choosing between a White Falcon and your Duo Jet!
I have to se the final proto.
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- Rated: 24 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 9:33 p.m. stjohn:
Funny how Gretsch "solid" bodies are gaining wood these days, and Gibson solid bodies are losing wood, with them going to chambering a lot of their solidbodies.
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- Rated: 46 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 11:05 p.m. BillyZoom:
I think they've lost a few pounds since Fender got involved. I have a Silver Jet that Fred and Dinah gave me about eight or nine years ago, and it's solid. Things are definitely improving. BZ
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- Rated: 83 ↑
Mar 8, 2008 11:44 p.m. Mark Synchro:
I'd have to agree. My 6128 TCG is surprisingly light and I've heard that even the Electromatic Jet models have been on an effective diet.
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- Rated: 12 ↑
Mar 9, 2008 2:07 p.m. Tim:
Is this the same Billy Zoom who recorded Nightmare of a Woman with Deke Dickerson? As Deke Dickerson's biggest fan in Louisiana, I take my hat off to you!
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- Rated: 51 ↑
Mar 9, 2008 10:28 p.m. Zuma:
stjohn said: Funny how Gretsch "solid" bodies are gaining wood these days, and Gibson solid bodies are losing wood, with them going to chambering a lot of their solidbodies.
On the contrary, Gretsch semi-solids are losing wood as well. Perhaps it's the anti-depressants?
BUT, I would be very interested to see X-Rays of Pre-FMIC Jets as my '98 White Penguin seems to be almost totally solid. Ask TVJ about how nasty a job it was replacing the wiring in those models.
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- Rated: 24 ↑
Mar 10, 2008 9:08 a.m. stjohn:
Zuma, I was meaning since the 50s to now. Gretsch touted it's chambering of the 'jets, while Gibbo's were the boat paddles of the day. Now, 50 years later, they're both about the same chambering wise. Gretsch has apparently gained quite a bit of wood by the looks of BZ's jet. On the flipside, some Lesters look like swiss cheese under a x-ray nowadays. It's just funny how the "Ford" and "Chevy" of the 50's guitar manufacturers have seemingly met in the middle on this with current production.
And I still can't stand Gibson!
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- Rated: 49 ↑
Mar 11, 2008 5:43 a.m. Ratrod:
G!bson hollowed out their guitars to make peolple believe it was made from the more expensive and better light weight mahogany. Gretsch did it to stay true to their philosophy.
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- Rated: 51 ↑
Mar 11, 2008 6:22 a.m. Curt:
G!bson hollowed out their guitars to make peolple believe it was made from the more expensive and better light weight mahogany. Gretsch did it to stay true to their philosophy.
The first chambered Les Paul was made for Mary Ford. Then several years back they were cutting arbitrary holes to reduce the weight. Light and heavy mahogany cost the same and is sold by board foot not weight, the problem is supply. So in 2004 they introduced the CR series that have routed bodies and they started to make them look like ES 335's sans F holes. The result is that they sound like 59's.
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- Rated: 43 ↑
Mar 11, 2008 8:14 a.m. Tsar Nicholas :
That's really cool, Billy. Anatomy of a Rock N Roll guitar..
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- Rated: 40 ↑
Mar 11, 2008 8:23 a.m. Hobie:
Never realised the B11/b12 bigsby were used on mainstream G's. Thought it was just a TVJ aberration on his spectrasonics;
I just knwew they would look the deal.
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- Rated: 204 ↑
Mar 11, 2008 9:55 a.m. Proteus:
Hobie-san, in the Dynasonic era (pre-1958, moless), Bigsbys didn't come standard on many Gretschs, or ANY Jets. (I think.)
So any Bigsby you'd find on a vintage Dyna Jet would have been installed as a special order either at the factory or dealership, or as an aftermarket mod.
Could be any Bigs! I think these look great on the BillyJet as well.
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- Rated: 30 ↑
Mar 11, 2008 11:08 a.m. Suprdave5150:
Billy, Thanks for contributing so much already and taking time away from your schedule to post pictures, X-Rays and wonderful stories. You are a true gentelman.
Those jets Rawk!!
Dave
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- Rated: 6 ↑
Jul 1, 2008 11:15 p.m. tedzepplin:
Does anyone know where the x-rays are? I can't find them. It sounds like they are posted in this thread but I don't see them. thanks.
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- Rated: 46 ↑
Jul 1, 2008 11:44 p.m. Timthom62:
Unfortunately, Baxter has disabled the option to host pictures on the site which took out the photos that were not hosted offsite on sites like photobucket.
I couldn't find a image of the x-ray online, but the current print issue of Guitar Player has a good article with Billy about the new 6129BZ that does have a picture of the x-ray.
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- Rated: 55 ↑
Jul 2, 2008 1:20 a.m. otterbean:
I've got a copy on my PC. (Just to use as a reference if I decide to go crazy with a router on an Electromatic model one day.)
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- Rated: 65 ↑
Jul 2, 2008 1:52 a.m. antik:
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- Rated: 18 ↑
Jul 2, 2008 2:47 a.m. K-Wad:
Timthom62 said: the current print issue of Guitar Player has a good article with Billy about the new 6129BZ
Cool, I'll have to swing by Border's on my lunch break tomorrow to pick up a copy. (Is it just me, or has there been more coverage of Gretsch in the magazines lately?)
