About the Gretsch Pages

Block function

1

I have warm relations with many many members of this community. The vast majority of the rest are people who are decent and with whom I am cordial and unfailingly civil. As one who has studied and taught rhetoric and administers social media groups organized around much more contentious and sensitive topics than guitars, I have a fairly developed perspective on the complexities involved in civil society, whether writ large or in small communities marked by developed familiarity.

However, I stayed away from this community for an extended period because a handful of members to a dislike to me and behaved like childish bullies. Some still do. I don't really mind that I am not 100% accepted and liked everywhere or anywhere. No one really is. But I do not accept some of the behaviors I have witnessed on the GDP from a very small number of members and do not think that simply ignoring them is effective. I also know from experience how much time and energy can be soaked up and spit out moderating petty immaturity.

The most effective solution, in my view, if we want a broadly inclusive community (and I do) is to include a function where people can elect to block one another, after which they will not see your posts and you will not see theirs. Were such a function incorporated here, my guess is that the number of members with regard to whom I would avail myself of this function would be exceedingly small. Low single digits. But had I been able to do so, I would not have absented myself from the GDP for one or more extended periods and no other members would have been exposed to the unpleasantnesses which I face and have protested.

2

In this tiny Universe of ours, here, that seems to me an inappropriate addition and I do so hope it is not implemented.

3

Not as inappropriate as toleration of abusive personalities who bully others. Or blaming those who are bullied. Do you think that is appropriate? Perhaps you might take the time to explain why you think it is inappropriate, what it would harm, or what other mechanism you advocate beyond simply putting the onus on people who have been the targets of aggression to live with it. I know of members who left this "tiny Universe" permanently because of these people. Do you think that is appropriate?

4

Trying to implement that suggestion would involve adding a complicated layer to the workings of this website, ie no reward work for its founder and owner, Bax, and I for one view it as overkill. The same advice offered here before was to simply ignore threads authored by those you don't get along with.

I sympathise with your issues Strum, but I'll venture to say, it's possibly best described for most of us around here, as a solution in search of a problem.

5

Sorry you don't recognize the problem. You think I seek contact with these people? Just because you haven't been targeted and harassed doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. So, your solution, is that the abused should continue to eat the abuse while the abusers do as they please. I find that very ethically problematic. And I don't think it serves the community well.

6

Move to the other Gretsch forum. They have an "ignore" button function which has been operational for years. As far as I can tell it hasn't caused the world to end yet. I had to use it once on another member who had taken a dislike to me and was endlessly trolling all my posts. Eventually that member was banned from the site.

7

I value contact with many members here who don't participate there.

8

I'd probably be much more amenable to the idea if you weren't so frequently right in the middle of the drama yourself, Strum.

9

As in real life, I still choose to ignore. Makes my life easier yet I still get the entertainment value of seeing those people spiral downward. Like you had stated, the guy on the other forum was finally booted out. Survival of the fittest kind of thing. I hope you know that I personally don't have any problems with you or anyone else here.

10

I'd probably be much more amenable to the idea if you weren't so frequently right in the middle of the drama yourself, Strum.

– Baxter

Cheap shot and untrue. When before the last six hours was the last time I was the middle of any drama around here. I know. I know. You prefer to coddle abusers and then throw shade at me when, once in 4 years, I speak up. You aren't amenable to it because you don't care and you don't want to be bothered. That's been true to me for years, Bax. You want to differ with me on philosophical ethics, that's fine. But when you start fabricating stuff and once again backing up the offenders, I will call BS. It's eminently possible to disagree with people without making up convenient untruths to back up your argument. I know you life is easier when people just abandon the field to the trolls and thugs. And feel free to kick me off if that's what you choose. I absented myself for over a year at least once and for another extended period that I believe was almost as long. And you were perfectly happy with JD and Ruger and Knavel and Bluecap and Knoxy and their sock-puppets tossing sand in the eyes of everyone they chose to in your sandbox.

Other than that, well, oooooh, snap! Snappy is often untrue and thrown out in bad faith.

11

As in real life, I still choose to ignore. Makes my life easier yet I still get the entertainment value of seeing those people spiral downward. Like you had stated, the guy on the other forum was finally booted out. Survival of the fittest kind of thing. I hope you know that I personally don't have any problems with you or anyone else here.

– Suprdave

Because social darwinism is victimless?

Ignoring bullies is the height of privilege.

12

You're really trying to test me.

First off, you don't know a damn thing about what I did or didn't do with other members here.

Second, pretending you don't find drama pretty consistently around here is disingenuous at best.

And finally, again, if you have any issue you would like to raise, raise it with me OFF THE SITE.

13

Blanket exemption, I live in New Jersey...

14

You're really trying to test me.

First off, you don't know a damn thing about what I did or didn't do with other members here.

Second, pretending you don't find drama pretty consistently around here is disingenuous at best.

And finally, again, if you have any issue you would like to raise, raise it with me OFF THE SITE.

– Baxter

If you would like to address this with me off the site, then address it with me off the site. I won't respond on the site to anything addressed to me off the site.

Disingenuous? When was the last time I was involved in any rancorous back and forth with these trolls? Or anyone else? If you are going to toss out accusations in open forum, I will challenge them in open forum.

15

now y'all know how i feel. been putting up with this for a decade, and i'm about 95% done.

16

Strum: any consistent ongoing downvotes of your every post, regardless of content - simply because it's you posting - are abhorrent, juvenile, and cowardly.

The whole POINT of up-down votes on POSTS rather than PEOPLE is that the community can register its reactions to that particular content. In an extreme example, a guy could post the most insightful, inspirational, harmonically-aligned thing you've ever read, and deserve a whole round of uppiters. The next day the same guy could post an unsupported, mean-spirited, profane and belligerent attack on puppies and rainbows - and that should get a pile of downers. Who he was yesterday should not protect a post he apparently extruded from his nether regions.

We don't vote people up and down, we rate posts.

Don't like a guy's face, attitude, politics, religion, taste in music, choice of strings, posting style, whatever? Just stay away from him. Ignore him. If he shows up in a thread you're reading and says something you don't like, engage civilly and address that point if you want. Or continue to ignore.

Do NOT seek out anything the guy posts and vote it down. That IS harassment. It's low-end bullying. It creates a toxic environment for that guy - even if you think others either don't see it happening or think it's cool. A guy's every post is not a secret ballot on whether you like the SOB or not.

If you're doing that crap, just stop it. As long as we're making our comments worth reading, and we're not being jerks, we all have an equal right to peaceful coexistence here.

Mac, I don't think Tavo's silly and poorly aimed jab at "hippies" was directed at you - nor was it (quite obviously) evidence of any kind of reasoned or consistent antipathy toward "hippies" in general. You appeared to take it as a personal attack on a core component of your belief system - and reacted proportionately to that (not the original "provocation"). Once the matter blew up to the proportions of a discussion of prejudice and tolerance, others were forced to take positions on that - when we generally hadn't cared that Tavo made a stupid joke that didn't seem to have a personal target. I don't think it can seriously be argued that the GDP is inhospitable to hippies, and I haven't noticed where you've been singled out for personal attack.

BOTH of you go off so spectacularly, in such literate, well-written, and imaginative rants that the leftover trolls apparently still occupying some of our personalities no doubt find you irresistible bargains. 10 words of snide aside, and they get 100 words back - with little calibration between "ouch, that hurt" and "bring on the nukes." I'll say this for you: we have no question about exactly where you stand and how you feel. Your honesty is like the refreshing breeze from a blast furnace, and is probably more honorable than the anonymous prodding and poking which provokes it.

Again. Y'all jerks who anonymously and prejudiciously attack individuals by means of down-votes on innocent posts - you're being jerks. Stop being jerks.

Strum and Mac, I think most of us value and like you guys. I know I do. You both make useful contributions. Don't let the jerks get your goats. We recognize them for what they are.

17

I don't think I'd use the function even if it existed. On facebook, where the shizbot get's REAL rank, I've only blocked one person...and only because he really didn't know me...he took umbrage to posts I predicated with self describing myself as a troll...so if he couldn't understand when I was joking and SAID in no uncertain terms I was joking, I threw in the towel.

18

We can downvote posts?

I didn't even know that!

K

20

People need to "grow a pair" and stop being so easily offended, and learn to cope. You can't be protected from life. Ignore jerks.

As far as "bullying", I find that a hard pill to swallow for 2 reasons:

1) this is an internet forum.
2) we are all adults here.

I am indifferent about implementing a "block" feature, interestingly for the same reasons: if you don't want to use it, don't. But otherwise, simply ignore those people who bother you.

22

Are we still talking about this? Why did this come back up? Did I miss something?

(and can you tell I believe every time this comes back, the chances of it resolving peaceably drop like a stone?)

23

I thought the block acted to “tie” the front and back together? Reducing Feedback...

24

well, i s'pose you can look at it as "reducing feedback" in a sense ;)

25

I've been on the GDP for a year now, and I read about 95 % of the new posts. In regards to the complaint of cyber bullies/victims on the GDP, I think that a lot of it can be minimized by simply not batting the ball back, when one feels insulted. I understand that human emotions are involuntary reactions to an event, I also understand that behaviors in reaction to the event are completely voluntary. I personally find members bickering, and the drama that ensues, to be unsettling. It's kind of like driving by a bad highway accident.

I read a book titled "The Four Agreements", by the author Don Miguel Ruiz, many years ago, and it had a profound influence on my life. While I do my best to live by all four of the agreements, I find that #2 and #3 are particularly important and liberating for me.

The Four Agreements are:

1) Be Impeccable with your Word:

Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love.

2) Don’t Take Anything Personally:

Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

3) Don’t Make Assumptions:

Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4) Always Do Your Best:

Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.


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